Why the 611?

[NW Mailing List]

Mr. Miller;
Once again thank you for taking so much time to give the details of "Why the 
611" was chosen. I'm sure that our email conversations were appreciated by 
many. I looked through the on line N&WHS commissary for your book, but 
couldn't find any thing. Does not mean that it is not there, just means that 
I didn't see it.
Thank you again Sir;
Gene Arnold
Gloucester, Va.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Why the 611?



> Gene

>

> I don't have any reference material with me, nor a copy of the book 

> handy, so if I have some dates off, well, check the book. If you  look, 

> you'll see the first J retired was in, IIRC, August of 1958. By  July, 

> with the lease of the RF&P and ACL E units to handle all the  mainline 

> passenger trains, the Js were pushed to secondary service,  and all were 

> equipped for freight service, with addition of  connections for auxiliary 

> tenders. As mechanical issues faced the in  service Js, the immediate need 

> was determined, and if it cost too  much, or took too much time, they were 

> stored and/or retired. Several  went in local freight service on the east 

> and west end of the  railroad, during the holiday rush, Js were used in 

> passenger service,  especially when the diesels failed.

>

> By late December 1958, the first N&W passenger diesels arrived on the 

> property, limiting the use of the Js on passenger trains, with the 

> passing of the holiday mail and express rush, there were soon enough 

> diesels on the property to handle to regular trains. In addition, the  N&W 

> was going through a lot of passenger train offs, eliminating a  lot of 

> local service and mail and express. Many Js were stored, and  over the 

> next few months retired, particularly as flue dates passed.  The 611, was 

> the last Class J to have received a major overhaul,  after the wreck on 

> No. 3 at Cedar, West Virginia on January 23, 1956.  It had the most recent 

> flues, and major repairs. By the summer of  1959, it was likely the only J 

> with usable flues. Again, if I recall  correctly, a number of the other Js 

> were gone from the property in  Spring 1959, others being retired in June 

> and July.

>

> The reason none were to be saved was simple, it was financial, Stuart 

> Saunders and his management team had no sentimentality, no interest  in 

> the history, only the bottom line. They had presented the Y6a No.  2156 to 

> the St. Louis Museum, and the E2a No. 578 to the Museum at  Worthington, 

> Ohio, as well as Class M No. 433 to Abingdon and No. 5  to Bluefield, No. 

> 6 to Roanoke.

>

> However, short of the Y6, note that all of these locomotives were  small 

> power, lightweight, those did not have nearly the scrap value  as bigger 

> power, A, J, etc. I'm certain that saving an S1a like 244  was not even 

> considered. It was not that old, not interesting. Again,  if I recall 

> correctly, the 244 was retired sometime in 1958. The  price of scrap was 

> pretty high at the time, don't give away something  that the company can 

> return value on. Of which they did. It is noted  that there were a huge 

> number of steam engines on hand at the end,  including a bunch of 

> Virginian steam, perfect basis of a  transportation museum in all cases. 

> However, with the value high, all  was scrapped, and the VGN stuff was 

> moved in a funeral train very  late in December 1959 to get it off the 

> property before the end of  the physical year. There could easily have 

> been more saved, if the  desire had been there, and the value of scrap 

> been down to nothing,  things may have stayed on the property longer, 

> awaiting value to  rise. Perhaps by then, someone may have come along with 

> money or a  decent plan to save things, but it costs money, then as today. 

> However, it was a scorched earth policy that cleaned the property of  most 

> all those old steam locomotives, as well as a bunch of other  cost cutting 

> things done in 1959-1962. Why? Very simple, it improved  the bottom line, 

> increasing stock value, of which executives like  Presidents of the 

> company own and it makes stockholders happy as  well, which means they 

> keep the President in his job.

>

> Anyway, by August of 1959, 611 was the last J standing, still in 

> operating condition, operated on a special trip for Appalachian  Power, 

> again, the Clayton connection. It was about that time that  Graham began 

> to write to Stuart Saunders. Graham Claytor was a lawyer  at a DC firm, 

> not yet with the Southern, Bob Clayton was in N&W law  department, and 

> still rising in the company, so had to maintain as  low a profile as 

> possible. However, the Claytors knew Saunders  personally, not just 

> another crazy railfan writing a letter saying to  save this stuff.  Graham 

> was very determined, visiting, writing  frequently about it. He suggested 

> keeping the 611 in operating  condition for a potential transportation 

> museum in Roanoke that was  being talked about, and finally came to pass 

> in 1963. There was even  an evaluation done by N&W in 1962-63 to put 611 

> back into operating  condition, estimated to cost about $5,000 then.

>

> Anyway, that is a round about explanation of why the 611, not because  it 

> was chosen, but it was the last survivor, then and now.

>

> Ken Miller

>

>

> On Jun 4, 2010, at 8:43 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>

>> Thank you Mr. Miller.

>> Back to the original question. Was the 611 saved because of its  good 

>> condition, or was it just the only "J" available?

>> Gene A.

>>

>>

>>

>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing- 

>> list at nwhs.org>

>> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:01 PM

>> Subject: Re: Why the 611?

>>

>>

>>> Link liked to believe he was responsible for saving the 611,  however 

>>> he had nothing to do with it.

>>>

>>> Copies of correspondence I have regarding the saving of 611 lie  solely 

>>> with W. Graham Clayton, his personal appeal to Stuart  Saunders and 

>>> repeated efforts resulted in the 611 being saved, not  scrapped. 

>>> Graham's letters begin about late August 1959. I is  covered in my book 

>>> on the Class J.

>>>

>>> There is absolutely no mention, ever, of Link's involvement or 

>>> inquiry. Behind the scenes also working to save a J was Robert B. 

>>> Claytor, then in N&W law department with some additional help of  C.E. 

>>> Pond as well.

>>>

>>> This was covered in my book on the Class J, published in 2000.

>>>

>>> Ken Miller

>>>

>>> On Jun 3, 2010, at 7:51 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>>>

>>>> In one of the early videos, I believe "Queen of the fleet",  Mr.   Link 

>>>> explains that the 611  was in the Yard at Roanoke ready to   send for 

>>>> scrapping. He called one of the Officials and suggested   that is 

>>>> should be set aside and saved. The 1218 was being used as  a 

>>>> stationary boiler some where up North.

>>>> Gene A.

>>>> Gloucester, Va.

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>>

>>

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