End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sat Oct 27 23:15:33 EDT 2012
Winchester & Western tested two of these MRS-1 in the early 1980s and found
them completely unsatisfactory. They were replaced by ex-SP S-6s and ex-N&W
RS11s
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:08 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Gordon:
Thanks for the update! Here's a nice site on the Alco version; I couldn't
find anything about GE-built versions. Some on "low cab" 44 ton switchers,
but that's not the same.
http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclopedia/Entry2750.aspx
(Mr. Moderator, we promise to return to N&W topics real soon!)
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 10/26/2012 8:16:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Dave,
Yes, GE produced this "universal" locomotive. We were told that by the time
it had been equipped with all of the "universal" apparatus, it's weight
would have exceeded the specified light axle load limit dictated by the
light rail infrastructure in many foreign countries, so the superstructure
of the locomotive was made of aluminum to keep the axle loading within
limits.
As I recall, this locomotive was out-shopped in its narrow-gauge version,
which caused no problem on the multi-gauge GE test track.
Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Gordon:
Thank you very much for sharing these wonderful experiences!
Yes, all rectifier locomotives and EMU cars must have smoothing reactors to
reduce the a.c. ripple riding on the d.c. to a level that will allow the
conventional d.c. traction motors (which really do NOT like this a.c.
component!) to commutate without excessive sparking. Of course, the
smoothing reactors had a significant electromagnetic field associated with
them, as you describe, and experience such as the one you describe quickly
reminded folks of the need to shield the surroundings. Proper orientation
helped, but brute force steel shielding was often needed. Out of curiosity
I looked at the smoothing reactor on 135 when it was parked down near the
Link Museum last year (it's clearly visible under the locomotive) and it's
well shielded.
The mercury arc tubes used as rectifiers were pretty rugged and reliable,
but still inherently a weak spot. When silicon rectifier cells of
sufficient rating were available, changeout was a no-brainer. The last few
E-44's were build with silicon cells instead of mercury arc tubes, and if
I'm not mistaken all were eventually retrofitted. I was told that the
mercury arc tubes were what limited the rating to 4400 "diesel equivalent"
hp. and that the changeout to solid state rectifiers allowed a 5000 hp
"diesel equivalent" continuous rating. The Budd-built "Silverliner" EMU
cars used mercury arc tubes in a phase-control mode* (silicon-control
recitfiers - SCR's - of sufficient rating were not yet available), and we
quickly discovered that going around curves, centrifugal force would pull
the pool of mercury away from the igniters and cause the cars to lose power.
Fortunately the tubes had two igniters (the thought had been to use one and
have the other as a spare), so they were quickly rewired to put the two in
parallel. I never heard of this being a problem on EP-5s, EL-Cs or E-44s.
(*These tubes - two "back to back" - were placed between the transformer
secondary and the rectifiers [which by then, 1962, were solid state]. By
firing the tubes "on" at varying places on the a.c. wave, the output voltage
could be controlled to regulate the current. Once the polarity of the a.c.
wave reversed, the tubes automatically shut off and waited for the next
"turn on" pulse to the igniter.)
I wasn't aware GE had build any of the "universal" locomotives. I knew of
the Alco versions (called "MRS-1" for "Military Road Switcher") which had GE
electrical equipment (I *think* 539 engines; they were rated 1000 HP).
There were several at Ft. Eustis when I was there for OCS and "commanding a
desk" in 1966-1969. They belonged to the 714th Railway Operating Battalion.
I'm not sure if they were left-over WWII units or new production. I thought
the latter and may have documentation in my archives somewhere, but I could
be mis-remembering, it's been known to happen!
I only took the NKP-DL&W Chicago-New York sleeper once, but will never
forget waking up to the beauty of the Delaware Water Gap from the eastbound
Lake Cities. My one west-bound trip on the NKP was Erie-Chicago the
weekend the North Shore quit running. Unfortunately by then NKP passenger
service was no longer PA's; we had two steam-generator road switchers, a GP
and NKP's only steam generator Alco road switcher. I came back on the New
England States as the NKP schedule just didn't work for getting home Sunday
evening to go to work Monday morning. Y'all with good memories will recall
that it snowed like **** that weekend; the 'States made an unscheduled
refueling stop at Collingswood "just in case."
Thanks again!
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 10/25/2012 12:22:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Dave,
Your mention of the New Haven Class EP-5 electric locomotives reminds me of
a story about them that I heard from a fellow Mechanical Engineering student
at VPI (now Virginia Tech) in the 1955-56 time frame. He was Gerald Healy
(spelling?), who had worked in GE's Locomotive and Car Equipment Department
at Erie, PA, but who had just recently left to go back to school.
He said that the first EP-5 to be completed was tested on GE's test track
there with a number of important observers to witness the event. Initially,
the light locomotive was run back and forth on the test track and performed
beautifully. Then someone noticed ten loaded cars of coal on the powerhouse
track and suggested that the new locomotive be coupled to them and pull them
up and down the track.
According to Gerald, after the air was pumped up on the cars and the brakes
released, the engineer pulled back on the controller handle to start the
train, but the locomotive just made a strange noise and could not budge the
ten cars! He said there was consternation among the observers that this
supposedly powerful locomotive could not pull 10 loaded cars!
As Gerald explained it, these locomotive used mercury arc rectifier tubes to
convert the AC from the trolley wire to DC for the traction motors (like the
VGN EL-C's), and they had "smoothing reactors" to smooth out the rectified
current. The problem was that the reactors were placed near the rectifier
tubes and the reactors developed a magnetic field somewhat proportional to
the current passing through them. When the locomotive was operating light,
the current was low enough that the magnetic field of the reactors created
no problem, but when the current was increased in the attempt to start the
ten loaded cars, the magnetic field of the reactors was sufficient to
extinguish the arc in the nearby rectifier tubes! Obviously, some "fix" was
made for this problem.
Your quote of the remark by the New Haven folks that "GE had learned a lot
about packaging the rectifier equipment since the EP-5's" appears to lead
credence to what Gerald told me.
Incidentally, after VPI I was drafted into the Army and eventually assigned
to the Signal Research and Development Laboratories at Fort Monmouth, where
I was assigned to a radio interference suppression section. One assignment,
in company with a civilian engineer, was to GE at Erie to run interference
tests on a "universal" diesel locomotive that GE had built for the US Army.
This locomotive could be adapted to various track gauges, various coupler
arrangements and either air or vacuum brakes. We set up our receivers along
the test track and checked the unit for compliance with military radio
interference specifications. I even got a short ride on the test track. I
heard later that this locomotive saw service on the Rio Grande narrow gauge,
but I have often wondered about its ultimate disposition.
While traveling out of Ft. Monmouth I took advantage of assignments like
this to ride trains whenever possible. For the Erie trip I took a PRR train
on the New York & Long Branch RR from Red Bank (near Ft. Monmouth) to
Newark, NJ where I transferred to the Newark Lackawanna station for a ride
on the DL&W's Phoebe Snow to Buffalo, NY, a fine trip except for the
business car coupled to the rear of the lounge car, blocking the view to the
rear. Buffalo to Erie was on the Nickel Plate Road. As I rode over this
track on the NKP passenger train I had no inkling that some twenty years
later I would be operating diesel locomotives and hauling freight over these
same tracks! The occasion was the 82-day N&W Clerk's strike of 1978, which
saw many N&W employees pressed into unfamiliar service to keep the freight
moving. During that time I logged some 11,000 miles running locomotives
over the 248 miles of old NKP main line between Bellevue, OH and Buffalo.
The return trip from Erie was the same at the extremities, but instead of
returning on the DL&W I substituted a ride on the NYC's Empire State Express
where I had an unobstructed view out the rear of the lounge car on the Water
Level Route. This lounge car even had a short rearward facing bench seat at
the rear windows for those people (like me) who wanted to see the railroad
without getting a crick in their neck.
Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Stewart:
You're thinking of what Vgn called the EL-C. The EL-2b's were the two-unit
(back to back) "streamliners." They had 25 Hz to DC motor-generator sets to
feed DC to their traction motors.
The rectifiers went straight from N&W to the New Haven in the summer of
1963, NH arranged for a service engineer from the GE New York office to
come to New Haven and check them out. As it happened, that summer was when
I was doing my three-month field assignment as part of my 21-month rotating
training assignments for what was then the Locomotive and Car Equipment
Department of GE, and I had been assigned to the NY Office for that
assignment (which was very convenient because we were living on Long Island
at the time). I was invited to come along for the inspection, which was a
great experience. The New Haven folks remarked that "GE had learned a lot
about packaging the rectifier equipment since the EP-5's."
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 10/21/2012 9:11:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Hi Group, please forgive the ignorance of a Yankee member.- Were the VGN
EL-2b's, the "hood style" rectifier locomotives delivered by General
Electric to the VGN? If so, some of them came to the New Haven Railroad,
probably in the 1960's and probably by way of General Electric-Erie Works.
They passed from the New Haven into Penn Central then into Conrail. I'm a
member of the Railroad Museum of New England and the museum owns one of the
units in very faded Conrail blue and minus it's main transformer due to it's
concentration of PCB's in the transformer oil. It will never run again,
there's no main transformer and the 20 mile Naugatuck Railroad subsidiary of
the museum has absolutely no centenary.
Stewart Fritts
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Sorry I can't answer all your inquiries about the EL2b's. I do have a note,
of which I do not remember the source, that says the EL2b's were scrapped at
the Peck Iron
& Metal Co. in south Richmond. Maybe this will jog someone's memory with the
details.
Jeff Sanders
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
I've seen several accounts of the end of the EL-2Bs which say they were
taken out of service and scrapped between 1959 and 1962. The early date is
clearly incorrect as McClure and Plant show several pictures in their book
of these motors in service into at least Oct. 1960. Can anyone clear up the
history of the final days of the EL-2Bs? When were they actually taken out
of service? Were they stored for a while before disposal? Were they sent
back to General Electric or were they scrapped by some local company? If
so, who, when and where? Many thanks for your help.
Tom
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