Pocahontas consist Q & A
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Mon Sep 28 19:44:00 EDT 2015
Rick:
Thank you!
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 9/28/2015 7:13:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Yes Dave, that is correct. Train 3 dropped three cars for Columbus (Train
33) and picked up three head end cars which arrived earlier on train 23.
23 terminated at Portsmouth. The three cars headed to Columbus: one
sleeper, one coach, and the M1 postal car which ran Bluefield-Columbus.
--Rick Morrison
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Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pocahontas consist Q & A
Rick:
Thank you for this detailed explanation. However, I need you to clarify
the following two sentences:
"At Portsmouth train 3 picked up three more head end cars, two from
Greensboro and one Washington-Cincinnati car (all from Southern Ry). These cars
were forwarded west in local train 23."
Do you mean "These cars had been forwarded west in local train 23." In
other words, N&W train 23 got them from the Southern in Lynchburg or Roanoke,
but they weren't put on train 3 until Portsmouth?
Thanks,
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 9/27/2015 9:00:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
To answer Ray's question about how mail and express cars which came east
on N&W train 4 returned west: Number 3 ran with only the BMf car Norfolk to
Roanoke. In Roanoke, two more express and storage mail cars destined for
Cincinnati were picked up. One of these came from Petersburg on local
train 7. At Portsmouth train 3 picked up three more head end cars, two from
Greensboro and one Washington-Cincinnati car (all from Southern Ry). These
cars were forwarded west in local train 23. The Washington-Cincinnti car
came off The Tennessean at Roanoke along with a New York-Roanoke car! To
complicate matters, not all these headend cars operated every day of the week.
The Washington-Cincinnati car ran only on Saturday. After the demise of
the N&W locals, what was left of the interline mail and express business
moved to the name trains. Jim is correct that prior to the 1960's you did not
see box express cars running on most N&W trains, but you did on the
Southern run throughs. The term express car does not necessarily mean "box
express." The mail and express cars on the Tennessean operated to and from
Chattanooga except for the baggage-coach combine running on to the train's
Memphis destination.
The Pocahontas had a heavier eastbound consist than westbound. The
consist sheets show 15 cars between Williamson and Roanoke on Thurs, Fri, Sat,
Sunday. So yes, a J had the capability to handle so large a consist. The
best photo of this is in Norfolk and Western Passenger Service 1946-71 by
Warden and Ken Miller, page 36. Fourteen cars, and 6 of them are heavyweights.
Who says passenger train operation and modeling isn't interesting?
--Rick Morrison
From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
To: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: More on the Pocahontas image
This is just a guess, but is based on the fact that I don't remember
seeing box express cars in the consist of the Pocahontas. You say the cars
originated in Cincinnati and Chicago. Perhaps they came down the CNO&TP to
Chattanooga and were put on the Tennessean there. If so, the cars returning on
the Pelican might have gone back to Chattanooga on the Pelican. In other
words, maybe the cars did not run on the N&W main between Walton and
Cincinnati. Just a guess!
Jim Nichols
On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:56 AM, NW Mailing List
<nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
Rick,
Thanks for this interesting and helpful information.
Given your expertise demonstrated in your answer, you may be able to help
me with a consist question I have been unable to answer. Between 1960 and
1964 I spent considerable time watching trains at Kemper St Station in
Lynchburg. During that period No.46, The Tennessean, always has between two and
five mail cars attached to its end coming through Lynchburg. These were
taken off at Monroe and put on Southern No. 19, the mail only train that left
Monroe about 6pm headed south.
My questions are:
1. How did these mail cars get to Roanoke? As I recall they were from
Cincinnati and Chicago. Some were "box express" cars and some were of the kind
shown in the photo of No. 4 in Roanoke. While the most obvious answer is
that they came to Roanoke on No. 4, I have not seen pictures of No. 4 in
Roanoke or points west with the box express cars. Further, I question if No 4
had the capacity to handle five of these mail cars (sometimes fewer) as
well as its other consist.
2. By what trains did these cars make their return trip west? I believe
they came north on Southern No. 30. (The Peach Queen), were left in Monroe
around 2:30am and picked up by No. 41 (The Pelican) about 4 am. for the trip
west. But The Pelican went to Bristol and on south, so how did the cars
get back to Cincinnati and Chicago. The Powhatan Arrow was the next
westbound train through Roanoke but we know the cars were not attached to this
train (or so I think because I saw No. 25 in Roanoke and points west a number
of times and never observed these cars in the consist).
Any insight you or anyone else can provide will be appreciated. Thanks.
Ray Smoot
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 24, 2015, at 12:20 PM, NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) > wrote:
Rick is absolutely right. I am wiser now, and agree with everything he
asaid.
Jim Nichols
On Thursday, September 24, 2015 6:39 AM, NW Mailing List
<_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) > wrote:
Re: The Pocahontas Image.
Please look very carefully at the far left of the photo from
_railpictures.net_ (http://railpictures.net/) . In front of the class Pg coach is a BMf
postal baggage with a shadow over the postal apartment. Behind the Pg
coach is a Pm coach which would be highly unusual for Trains 9 and 10. That
is why my logic tells me this is the Pocahontas.
If anyone has any doubt about the postal car on the Pocahontas in 1954
check out these b&w photos. The postal car always ran ahead of the first
coach, baggage end forward. The fifth car in the Roanoke view is a Bmf postal
baggage car scheduled Cincinnati to Norfolk. Three of the storage mail
cars came off in Roanoke. One went on to Lynchburg on train 10 (to Greensboro
NC via Southern), the other to Petersburg in Train 8.
I will scan and submit separately train consist sheets for Train 4 as it
existed in March 1954. I also have sheets for Trains 9 and 10 if there is
enough interest.
--Rick Morrison
Moderator:
http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2015/20150924.NW_Pocahontas_1950_2nd_115.jpg
http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2015/20150924.NW_Pocahontas_nr_Farmville_1953116
.jpg
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