6 wheel trucks

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Thu Nov 29 18:28:45 EST 2018


Frank - 

I just know that the earlier VGN 3-bay hoppers had the Vulcan trucks.  There were lots of 40 and 50-ton Vulcan trucks out there; VGN had some 50-ton hoppers with Vulcan trucks.  The 3-bay cars with the Vulcan trucks bore no resemblance to the H-14/34 cars.  They were more modern with ride-control trucks.

Ed King

From: NW Mailing List 
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:12 PM
To: NW Mailing List 
Subject: Re: 6 wheel trucks

Uncle Ed,

I waited two days for the real experts to answer, but they've remained silent.  A wiser man than I once said that the best way to get good data out of the woodwork is to put out bad data, so here goes.

According to the 1948 Virginian Freight Car plan book, those cars had Vulcan Cast sideframe trucks with 33" wheels.  I'm not sure how unique those would be for the 1924 build period, but it seems that the answer is "yes".  

There may be five people who want additional information, so here's some, as far as I can find or remember.  More specific information is in the Dow book, the COHS freight car books, and the instructions for the Westerfield kits.

These cars are adapted from a USRA 70 ton triple design that was never built as originally authorized.  The original design, and the cars that were built, had a center clamshell with two outer regular hopper doors.  The Virginian had 500 of these, and at least two lasted until 1959 and one lasted to 1962.  

In addition to the 500 for the Virginian, the C&O, the HV and the NYC (and subsidiaries)got a few thousand more to the same basic design at the same time.

In the 1930's all the railroads that had them rebuilt them to change the center clamshell to a three sawtooth design.  

The only picture we've found, so far, of a Virginian car in the three sawtooth configuration is of a car sold, and repainted and lettered, for the Tennessee Central(?).  

This car, the VGN H-5, is noticeably different from Virginian's next 70 ton triple, the H-14.

Westerfield had done excellent models of the car detailed for the C&O and the NYC (no, I'm not checked out on the differences)in both the clamshell and as rebuilt versions. I do not know if the new owner of Westerfield has rerun these cars or plans to.  They are available at train shows and hobby shops if you search.  The C&O rebuilt version has the arched ends.   

I picked up a few of the NYC cars with a view to making credible Virginian H-5's.  After looking at the 55+ step instructions I put them in the To-Be-Done-When-My-Skills-Get-To-That-Level Box.  I suspect that's the reason a lot of unbuilt kits are available at hobby shops.  The few I have seen built are really good.  

Now the real experts can chime in.

Frank Bongiovanni
Going back to the bunker and working on #610



On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:09 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

  Didn’t those earlier VGN 3-bay 70-ton hoppers have a rather unique truck under them?  If I’m not mistaken, they had a very rare 6x11 journal Vulcan truck.  

  EdKing

  From: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 2:57 PM
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Subject: Re: 6 wheel trucks

  Steve Summers researched the heck out of these for a clinic, and I have the material somewhere, but I'm 95% certain that the H-14's were built after the H-15's.  The H-15's are another in the long line of 50/52.5/55 ton two bay hoppers; the H-14's were the second group of 70 ton three bays, several years after the 70 ton 3 bay H-5's.  The H-14/H-34's are kind of a unique VGN/N&W design, and as far as I know, even though we've had two different postings on how to take an MDC or Atlas TrainMan 70 ton 3 bay and convert it to the H14/34 hopper, an accurate model has not been done in kit or RTR.

  Frank Bongiovanni

  On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 2:44 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

    Don’t recall the VGN H-15s.  Do recall the H-14s; I was working at Shaffers Crossing Shop Track at the date of the merger and was drafted for a couple of jobs at other locations.  My impression was that the H-14 class was in existence before the merger and that 500 more were built after the merger as N&W H-34s.  I don’t recall the numbers.

    Ed King

    From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
    Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 12:07 PM
    To: NW Mailing List 
    Cc: NW Mailing List 
    Subject: Re: 6 wheel trucks

    Ed,
    Virginian drawings show 1000 H-15, 55-T hoppers built by Bethlehem Steel from Mar. thru June 1953, numbers 26000-26999.
    Then, from May thru Oct 1956 Virginian built at Princeton, 500 total hoppers, H-15a nos. 27000-27299 and H-15b nos. 27300-27499.
    I know the H-14, 70-T hoppers were built in Princeton, but for some reason I do not have that drawing.
    Since I do not have the H-14 drawing I can't prove it, but something tells me, and I don't know why, that the H-14 hoppers were actually built after the the H-15a&b hoppers. That would explain the left over material for more H-14s after the merger.
    Your thoughts?


    Jeff Sanders



    On Monday, November 26, 2018, 7:51:35 AM EST, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 


    Jeff - 

    The Virginian cars were 70-ton hoppers classed H-14.  At the time of the merger, material was on hand at Princeton to build 500 more cars; they were N&W class H-34.  At least, this was the story at the time.

    Ed King

    From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
    Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 6:08 PM
    To: NW Mailing List 
    Cc: NW Mailing List 
    Subject: Re: 6 wheel trucks

    Interesting that the Class was H-15. The Virginian had just built class H-15 hoppers in Princeton in the late '50s. In fact, I believe the N&W continued to build cars in Princeton after the merger, under the new N&W numbers and class. N&W wasted no time in reclassifying Vgn equipment to fit its system. I'm betting all that was probably settled before merger day.


    Jeff Sanders


    On Saturday, November 24, 2018, 6:47:46 PM EST, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 


    I only missed the class by two . . .

    EdKing

    -----Original Message----- 
    From: NW Mailing List 
    Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 10:30 AM 
    To: NW Mailing List 
    Subject: Re: 6 wheel trucks 

    Except that the  class was H-15, the rest sounds good to me.

    Gordon Hamilton

    On 11/23/2018 10:19 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
    > Around 1961 or so N&W designed a massive 150-ton hopper car (class 
    > H13?) to use short-wheelbase Buckeye 6-wheel trucks like those used on 
    > Y-6 tenders. They started construction and ordered the trucks from the 
    > Buckeye people and were advised that the short-wheelbase item was no 
    > longer available.  In order that the project not be scrapped on the 
    > spot, they had to go to United Iron and Metal at Roanoke which was 
    > scrapping Y-6bs at the time and buy a pair of tender trucks, which 
    > reportedly cost $25,000.
    >
    > I saw the car a couple of times; it really stood out in a coal train.
    >
    > Gordon, can you correct any mistakes I have made?
    >
    > Ed King
    >
    > -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List
    > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 3:48 AM
    > To: NWHS LIST
    > Subject: 6 wheel trucks
    >
    > Recent discussions with a friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought 
    > to memory of a 6 wheel hopper I thought was VGN, but could also be N&W.
    > There were either photos or drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone 
    > through and found the VGN car, but not the style I am remembering.
    > A friend of mine had his father cut the shape out of wood some years 
    > ago. I got 6 wheel trucks for them, but never finished them.
    > Does anyone know or remember these cars, and where the drawing/photo was?
    > I know with all the talk of the manufacturers closing down, and really 
    > putting the squeeze on available models, has anyone considered 3D 
    > printing?
    > I have quite a few hoppers, excavators, front end loaders ect that 
    > were 3D printed. I know they are not perfect and need extra attention, 
    > but after putting micro-train trucks under them, they look quite nice 
    > and work fine. 3D printing could offer unlimited items to manufacture, 
    > that otherwise would never be made except for scratch building.
    >
    > PS in the March/April 2006 issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front 
    > covers, so if your issue is missing its front cover, I have it.
    >
    > Jeff Wood
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