Swiveling rear engines/the Arrow

Wed Feb 11 15:37:33 EST 2015

Bob: Jack has had the plans and my write-ups on all six VGN PA Pacifics for about 10 years. The Archive now has many more PA drawings and photos than we had back in the early 2000s.  Up dating the package I send to Jack ( or any other importer or builder) would be easy. The main reason I think that jack did not get many reservations was the price.  BLI could produce a reasonable model at a reasonable price.  Also note, the VGN PA is not a light Pacific. Comparing boiler and firebox size you will find the PA was a truncated USRA light Mountain.  The boiler size being larger than a light Pacific made the PA a bit top heavy.  While the boiler capacity was not needed for VGN passenger trains, it did get a workout when the PAs were used in time freight service. 
Note: I also send Jack the drawings for the baggage- mail cars, the coaches  and the Winding Gulf club car. 
                                                                                                                                    Harold Davenport  

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 12:58 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

As it turns out, I was in the middle of a conversation with Jack Vansworth of Division Point about an issue with my Viriginian Trainmasters and I added a desire for the Virginian PAs.   Below is the email trail:

Min of 65 with 2 types.....price about $1650 Wholesale

On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Bob Cook <seadevil8 at verizon.net> wrote:
How many orders do you need?  bob

From:Jack Vansworth [mailto:jack at divisionpoint.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 4:56 PM
To: Bob Cook
Subject: Re: Contact from Division Point Web Site

....wanted to do that for years, but never could come up with enough orders Bob.....rally the faithful, i think I still have the plans.  Cheers Jack

On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Bob Cook <wordpress at www.divisionpoint.com> wrote:
Name: Bob Cook
Email: seadevil8 at verizon.net
Comment: I wanted to thank you for calling with the information on removing the truck on the Virginian Trainmaster.  I had tried the screw but it didn't "unscrew."  Having gain some confidence that removing the screw was the right approach, I was able to separate the truck from the screw by pulling the nut out of the truck.  It had been rotating in the truck when I rotated the screw.  I was able to reassemble it and it looks as good as new!

Now if you would import a HO Scale Virginian PA (4-6-2 light Pacific), you'd make my year!

From:NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 4:46 PM
To: NW Modeling List
Subject: Re: Swiveling rear engines/the Arrow

Eric, from a very reliable source, a few years ago DP informed us that it appeared that they couldn't count on selling 30 PA's at the anticipated $1,700 price, so the project was dropped.  Also dropped a year or two later was the planned set of VGN 3 passenger cars; if memory serves the list price for the 3 brass cars was in the $800-$1000 ball park.  And, let me put on my high price hat for a moment: it would be very risky for the Society to guarantee any sales of a brass locomotive.  For several reasons.  

Frank Bongiovanni

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:10 AM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
Frank:

Before “brassbashing” a VGN PA, please note that BPL Brassworks (http://www.railmodel.com/) still lists a Division Point project to import two versions (square and sports cab); DP-5001 and -5002.  I can’t find this project “announcement” anywhere else, including on the Division Point site (http://www.divisionpoint.com/site/) , so I wrote a note to Jack Vansworth asking if this project was still under consideration.  I’ll post his reply, if/when I get one.  

If the project is still under consideration, I’d expect a model price in the $1800 - $2000 range, although the PA’s weren’t festooned with appliances like DP’s recent H-10 Mikado models, which landed in the US at a list price of $2015 (black paint schemes) to $2195 (P&LE green paint schemes.)  

The good news is that we wouldn’t have much to quibble about over the hue of paint on the PA models.

Jack has shown that he’s willing to work with some of the historical societies, and has done pretty darn well by the N&W (other than the Trainmaster lettering snafu.)  I’d like to have an accurate model of both PA versions, but would probably (well, definitely) have to restrain myself to a sports cab version to “represent”, given the likely price.  Two Branchline coaches and a kit-bashed combine would fill out a “Virginia Creeper” quite nicely—a modeling and painting challenge within my scope of time and skill.

I doubt the PAs would get produced without advanced reservations for at least 80, and maybe 100, (combined) of the two versions.  But I wonder whether N&WHS could get “dealer pricing” from DP, if we guaranteed orders for 50 or so models?  That could lead to a $400+ per model benefit to Members plus some cash in the N&WHS coffers.  But the Member reservations would have to have teeth in them to insure that the Society doesn’t get hurt.

Straw poll, any one?

-Eric Bott

From:NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 2:57 PM
To: NW Modeling List
Subject: Swiveling rear engines/the Arrow

Matt, in one of my clinics I spend some time discussing threshold's of tolerance: i.e. what bothers you.  And this will vary from individual to individual.  As I said, the rear engine swiveling bothers me, but it hasn't bothered me enough to keep me from some locomotive purchases.  Factors include things like 6 coupled or 8 coupled, and how much I have to pay for one that doesn't swivel.  Watching the cylinders on the rear engine swing out is mildly irritating.  Hasn't kept me from the Bachman C&O H5 and the Proto 2-8-8-2, but I do prefer the Powerhouse 2-8-8-2.  I noticed that the Precision VGN AG is now available for a bit over $3,000.  So VGN guys now have to think about the Rivarossi at around $4-500, the Key at around $800-$1,000, and the Overland creeping up on $2000 (although the availability of the Precision may cause that to drop).  One other point: a good number of Gem/Akane VGN AG's were sold, although they were just C&O Alleghenies with a
 different box.  Anybody who can come up with the correct AG dome (I'm still expecting someone to do it in 3D printing)may be able to sell a few. 

But the spread of what bothers some people is interesting.  Personally, the MTH Virginian triplex gives me a headache.  You and I know people who get hystercal at what they perceive as the wrong shade of (pick one): Tuscan Red, Pevler Blue, Enchantment Blue, Brunswick Green....you get the idea.  

On a related note (thanks for the reminder, Harold)we welcome articles where someone has taken a stock model and "fixed" or detailed it to make it closer to a true N&W or Virginian prototype.  [Sidebar: if anyone has successfullly kitbashed, brassbashed, or scratchbuilt a Virginian 4-6-2, please tell us about it].  

And one other point in a memo that's already too long (shocker, I know).  Generally, and this involves scores of locomotives, an articulated N&W 2-8-8-2, even with a fixed rear engine, is usually not a minimum radius problem.  Partly because it is articulated (which was Anatole Mallet's point)and partly because the drivers are comparatively small.  A PRR Q-2 or Santa Fe 2-10-4 is more likely to be a problem, but will take 30" usually.  A UP 4-12-2 usually needs 34" or more.  

Now with all that said, any of you who have successfully rigidized the rear engine of a Rivarossi, BLI, Bachman, or Proto articulated, an article is invited. 

Frank Bongiovanni

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