LC-2 vs EL-3a

Tue Jun 9 14:55:18 EDT 2015

Eric, Mason; thank you both very much.  That detailed spreadsheet
comparison of the LC-2 and EL-3 is extremely interesting; I had thought
that they were virtually identical.  Obviously not.

I could be wrong and I'd like to be: I doubt that there will be an LC-2
model done, except possibly in a very limited (and very pricey)version.
I'm saying this based on my thinking:

1)There has been little interest in N&W electrification, partly because it
ended about a decade prior to Virginian's (only fair comparison; PRR,
Milwaukee, New Haven, and GN aren't, IMHO, fair comparisons).  Note that
the LC-1 was done once (as far as I know), and the going price on those is
a reflection of their rarity.  The Virginian EL3 has been done twice, the
streamliners twice, and the ELC's three times.

2)I believe a few of the European manufacturers have done US electrics,
with varying degrees of accuracy (like Fleishman's New Haven EP-5, which
was actually a Dutch (?)electric that was kinda similar, done in New Haven
Colors).  I wouldn't care to speculate what the market would be like, and
I'm afraid that neither would they.  The mass market ELC was, I submit,
done for several reasons: comparatively simple mechanism, correct for at
least 5 railroads, and more people knew about it because of when the
prototype existed.  Also, and this may be cringeworthy, Lionel made it and
that increased its popularity.  Please, guys, before you laugh, look at the
popularity of models of the PRR S-2.

3)Again, I could be wrong.  I thought we'd never see a model of the Baldwin
60000 4-10-2, and one has been promised.  We got a model of the Ingalls
diesel.  Jawn Henry's been done at least twice.  And the Virginian triplex
has been done twice in brass (sorry; the MTH version doesn't count).  If an
LC-2 is done at a reasonable price I'd like one.

Frank Bongiovanni

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 1:55 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

>  Mason:
>
>
>
> I am occasionally startled by insight when putting timelines to specific
> technologies.  So it was when your comment about “N&W and Virginian using
> Westinghouse’s latest design” prompted me to look at my cheat sheet of US
> heavy electric events (attached.)
>
>
>
> What surprised me was that N&W’s LC-2’s were delivered in 1924, and VGN’s
> EL-3a’s in 1925—the opposite of the order I had previously assumed.  But
> the dates were so close that I wonder why the two railroads did not combine
> designs and orders to save money.  In any case, it is very clear that these
> designs were nearly contemporaneous, as you pointed out.
>
>
>
> Marklin??  Interesting!  Have they done any US prototype electric before?
> I’d love for Broadway Limited to put the effort into an LC-2 project that
> they did into their GG-1.  That remains one of the best heavy electric
> models ever produced, including nearly all brass.  I’d certainly go for a
> Bachmann model, if they did as good a job with it as they did with the
> VGN/N&W/NH/Conrail EL-C’s (EF-4’s) or their GG-1.
>
>
>
> And BTW, thank you for your N&W Electrics book.  It is very well done, and
> I’m always glad to return to it for a “refresher course” when and as needed!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> -Eric Bott
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] *On
> Behalf Of *NW Modeling List
> *Sent:* Monday, June 08, 2015 8:56 PM
> *To:* 'NW Modeling List'
> *Subject:* RE: LC-2 vs EL-3a
>
>
>
> Eric,
>
>
>
> From my research when writing the Electric book I found both models were
> designed for N&W and Virginian using Westinghouse’s latest design. Any
> differences between them are only the design improvements that were made
> between the construction dates. As for the prices, this is why I have been
> attempting the interest Marklin in the model. Some of the tooling they use
> for Swiss electric locomotives would fit right into this project.
>
>
>
> Mason Cooper
>
>
>
> *From:* NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org>] *On Behalf Of *NW Modeling List
> *Sent:* Monday, June 8, 2015 4:05 PM
> *To:* NW Modeling List
> *Subject:* LC-2 vs EL-3a
>
>
>
> Mason:
>
>
>
> This is my follow-up to your thought that a VGN EL-3a model would make a
> good starting point for a N&W LC-2 model.  Enough of the drawings I
> requested from the Archives have arrived for me to elicit the following
> facts:
>
>
>
> The pony wheels of the LC-2 and EL-3a are both 33”.  The LC-2 driver
> diameter was 62”, whereas the EL-3a’s was 61”.
>
>
>
> The spacings of all axles are identical between the two classes.
>
>
>
> The distance between the front coupling face and rear buffer of the EL-3a
> is 609” vs 583” for the LC-2.  Front coupling face to lead axle distance is
> 93” for the EL-3a, 85” for the LC-2.  Trailing axle to rear buffer distance
> is 66” for the EL-3a vs 48” for the LC-2.  My conclusion from this is that
> the frame of an EL-3a model would have to be cut back substantially at both
> ends to represent an LC-2 frame credibly.  Shortening the rear of a pair of
> ALCO frames by 18” looks pretty straightforward, but shortening the 8” up
> front doesn’t.
>
>
>
> The LC-2 body OAL is only about 4” shorter than the EL-3a’s, but has very
> significantly different window and door placements, so a new body would
> have to be fabricated for the LC-2 in any case.  The LC-2 body bottom is
> also 3.625” closer to the rails.  (This is interesting, because the floor
> of the LC-2 seems to have pockets in the floor to receive the upper ends of
> the spring hangers when the springs are fully compressed, whereas the tops
> of the EL-3a spring hangers sit well below the body floor.  I’m guessing
> the tunnel clearances in the N&W electrified zone were much tighter than on
> the VGN’s, and with the 1” extra driver diameter, ALCO had to get creative
> to lower the LC-2 body enough to meet the clearance plate.)
>
>
>
> I have attached a spreadsheet showing the key dimensions available from
> the materials I have so far.
>
>
>
> I find that I’m daunted by the scope of effort needed to make this work.
> I would much rather PSC or Division Point produce a new LC-2 set at $2200
> for a pair (painted), than to modify a pair of Alco EL-3a’s (orphaning the 3
> rd) at a net cost of ~$600, or a pair of Overland EL-3a’s (orphaning the 3
> rd) at a net cost of ~ $1800.  Maybe if somebody wants to surplus a
> couple of Alco EL-1a’s (cheap) I would put this one in my job jar.
>
>
>
> But if somebody had the skill and inclination to photo-etch new body and
> roof sheets for LC-2’s, I’d probably get much more enthusiastic about this!
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> -Eric
>
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