EXTERNAL: Re: Brass N&W Class Y-1 2-8-8-2 in HO Scale

Mon May 15 13:44:53 EDT 2017

Per http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/?page=bg and http://utahrails.net/bingham/bingham-1900-1914.php, the western 0-8-8-0 (numbers 100 – 106; Class 100) were used on Utah Copper’s (starting in 1937, Kennecott Copper’s) Bingham & Garfield RR – a mine-to-smelter operation that was probably not a common carrier.  These locos (7 of them!) were built in 1911 to a D&H design, and upgraded more than once to stay current with the D&H upgrades applied over the years.  Engine wheelbase was 40’2”, and total wheelbase with tender was a petite 59’1.5”.  Engine weight was 462,860#.  Walschaert vg.

B&M bought two (numbers 800-801; Class M-2a) 0-8-8-0 in 1922, using them in hump service in the Mechanicville Yard.  Engine wheelbase was 40’3”, and total wheelbase was 77’, so their tenders must have been quite a bit larger than B&G’s original locos.  Engine weight was 465,000#.  Walschaert vg.  B&M sold theirs to B&G in 1929, and they were re-numbered B&G 107-108.  Both received Class 3 overhauls in the 1947-1948 timeframe; the B&G must have loved them!

B&O’s thirty 0-8-8-0 (2401-2420 [461,000#] and 2422-2431 [471,900#], later re-numbered to 7020-7049; Class LL-1) were built in 1913.  Baker vg.  Engine wb 40’8”, total wheelbase inc tender 77’3”.

D&H had a total of thirty five 0-8-8-0, built in 1910, 1912 (two series), and 1930.  The 1910 and 1912 engine wheelbase was 40’2”, while the 1930 engine wheelbase was 42’5”.  Total lengths and engine weights  for the four series were 75’7”/445,000# (1910), 90’10”/464,100# (1912), 98’3”/465,300# (1912), and 82’6”/470,900#.  The tenders must have been all over the map for sizes.  All had Walschaert vg.

Erie had 3 (numbers 2600-2603; Class L1), built in 1907.   Engine wheelbase 39’2”, total wheelbase 70’5”.  Engine weight 410,000#.  Walschaert vg.  Despite that there were only three of these, they are probably the most iconic of all because of their camelback configuration.

N&W had 5 (numbers 990-994, Class X1), built in 1910.  41’2” engine wheelbase; 72’10” total wheelbase.  376,000# engine weight (the runts of the 0-8-8-0 litter!)  Walschaert vg.

NYC bought two nearly identical series in 1913 (12 locos, #5897-5908, Class NU-1a/c/e)) and 1916 (2 locos, #9090-9091, Class NU-1b).  All used in hump yard service, and pretty successful.  P&LE and Michigan Central each used two; I couldn’t easily find out whether these were lettered for “New York Central System” with P&LE and MC designations, or for their allocated railroads.  Engine wheelbase 40’4”, total wheelbase 74’5”.  Engine weight 466,000# for the first 12, 468,000# for the last two.  Walschaert vg on all.

PRR bought one Class CC1, #3397, 39’6” engine wheelbase, 71’10” total wheelbase, 408,700# engine weight, in 1912; plus 10 Class CC2, #7250 (plus nine other numbers which knowing Pennsy probably filled any number gap whatsoever at the time these were delivered), 40’1.5” engine wheelbase, 78’9” total wheelbase, 458,140# engine weight, in 1919.    Walschaert vg on all.

We’ve had NJCB models of Erie locos plus at least one of the PRR classes, and maybe of the NYC locos.  I would like to have a modern model of the Erie, and one of the N&W.

The problem here is that there’s very little in common between these various locos, other than between the D&H and the B&G locos.  If all versions of all new 0-8-8-0 models were priced at $2400, I’d guess that the total sales numbers would look like:

B&G/D&H           1/9         (I’m assuming that one of the two extant B&G modelers probably leads the life of an ascetic monk in the middle of the Utah
                                                desert, has an annual income of a gila, and scratch-builds everything from agave seeds.
                                                For the D&H folks, I’m assuming the 1910 and 1912 configurations, with 3 different tenders, are produced.)
B&M/B&G          9/1         (I’m assuming that the other B&G modeler is well-heeled and needs a model of both classes.)
B&O                       10
Erie                        12           (Howard Zane alone would probably buy 3.)
N&W                     12           (I’m basing this on TCY’s having been able to sell 11 Y-1’s in fairly short order)
NYC/P&LE/MC  10/4/2   (I’m assuming that the P&LE and MC letterings are distinct from the NYC lettering)
PRR                        20           (I’m assuming a split of 5 of CC1 and 15 of CC2)

Total                      90

Given the fact that this comprehends ~11 engine configurations, ~10 tender configurations, and ~11 lettering configurations to get to ~90 total sales, I’m not seeing how this project gets done.

But it would be great to be wrong!

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 16:08
To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Brass N&W Class Y-1 2-8-8-2 in HO Scale

I had to e-mail Fred Hill at the Coach Yard about another matter and I took the opportunity to mention the X-1.  He told me to send him more information.  So I sent him photos of the X-1 and pictures of the 0-8-8-0s from the other roads.  He said he liked what I sent him and that he was going to do some research.

One draw-back to the Coach Yard doing the X-1 might be that Fred is in California and the 0-8-8-0 type was used exclusively by roads east of the Mississippi.  The only exceptions I have found were a couple of 0-8-8-0s that were owned by a Copper mining company in Utah or Nevada.  Naturally, Fred has an affinity for "Western" railroads.  But he has been known produce models of "Eastern" railroads.  Last year, he did a fantastic job on the Seaboard Air Line's "Orange Blossom Special" heavy-weight passenger cars.  If you ever have an opportunity to see those cars, you'll be astonished by the detail.

Stay tuned.

Bill King

I Like this ! - including the Camelback !
Thanks for the photos - I am going to do some research on these !

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
Sent: Mon, May 8, 2017 6:39 am
Subject: RE: Brass N&W Class Y-1 2-8-8-2 in HO Scale
There certainly were many other 0-8-8-0’s of the same era as N&W’s X-1’s. It sure would be nice if on became available.

With that said I looked at other brass web sites and Dan’s was the only one with Y-1’s in stock.  Additionally the MSRP is over $2700 snd Dan was selling his at #2350.  For example Uncle Dave’s’ shows theirs for reservations only at this point at a price of $2750.  Dan’s remaining one is a  comparative good price for what it’s worth.  Only 11 models total were built and there are no more than 9 remaining so it would appear.

Thanks again Bill for the heads up.

Regards,
Ed

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: NW Modeling List<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 8:56 AM
To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Brass N&W Class Y-1 2-8-8-2 in HO Scale

Ed,

Glad to know you were able to snag a Y-1.  You're right.  They're going fast with just one left.

It never hurts to ask.  The next time I see Fred Hill of the Coach Yard at a train show, I'll ask if he'll do the X-1 as an encore.  He will only consider doing the X-1 if it can be bundled together with other railroad's 0-8-8-0s.  The B&O, Erie, D&H, B&M, N&W and NYC had 0-8-8-0s and the Erie's were Camelbacks.

I'll ask him.  He may do it.  You never know.

Bill King

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:list at nwhs.org>>
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:list at nwhs.org>>
Sent: Sat, May 6, 2017 9:40 am
Subject: Re: Brass N&W Class Y-1 2-8-8-2 in HO Scale
Bill, thanks for the heads up...... I've been waiting on this becoming available and it looks like they only built 11 models.  I just ordered mine so they now have one remaining Dan's!

This now completes my collection of HO gauge N&W Y's giving me at least one of each;
Y-1, Y-2, Y-2a, Y-3, Y-3a, Y-4, Y-5, Y-6, Y-6a, and Y-6b.

We now need someone to build an HO N&W X-1!

Ed Painter, from Narrows, VA...... living in Cohutta, GA

On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 5:42 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
The Coach Yard, a brass model importer, has released a N&W Class Y-1 2-8-8-2 in HO Scale.  Dan's Train Depot currently has three available for sale.  Dan's website for N&W models is: https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Trains/Roads/44/Norfolk-Western.

Bill King

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