NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2

[NW Modeling List]

Rapido has mentioned that even if you use the correct paint chip colors,
once you take them from 1:1 outdoor to 1:87 or smaller indoors, between the
size and the ambient light temperature, the color will look wrong. So it's
not just a matter of saying "This is the color to use", but there's a bit
of subjective-ness that goes into it as well.

Drew

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:24 AM, NW Modeling List <
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> Since I have seen N scale mentioned, I thought you might be interested in
> a conversation a group of my fellow N scale people and I had with a rep
> from Kato in Bedford, Ohio a few weeks ago. The rep was asked why Kato
> wasn't making eastern railroads, and mentioned that it would be nice to see
> N&W Class A, Y6b, J , or other eastern steam locos. The rep., born and
> raised in Ohio about 45 miles east of the shop  agreed, but told us that
> they wouldn't sell as quickly as western roads do. And that is the most
> important thing for them, The manufacturers want a quick return on their
> investment and sales of eastern railroads seem to take twice as long to
> sell as compared to BNSF, UP, and others. I would love to see N&W Cabooses,
> or correctly painted Heavyweight or Lightweight passenger equipment.
>
> I have read many letters over the years about the Tuscan always being the
> wrong color. Perhaps the NWHS needs to contact the manufacturers and give
> them the correct color samples. It would be nice to see Micro Trains,
> Heavyweight Pullmans in the correct color for the N&W. Or Con cor
> Lightweights in in the later Tuscan color. Money wise I think that would be
> easier, and cheaper.  And before the rivet counters get upset, In N Scale
> you can't even see the rivets,  Their to small.
>
> Joe Grzelak
>
>
> On 7/16/2017 7:20 PM, NW Modeling List wrote:
>
>> I hadn't been following this topic for a few days, which brings me to my
>> first comment:  If we are going to continue this, can we please change the
>> subject to something a little more on topic?
>>
>> Second, I can certainly understand the Society being hesitant to front
>> all of the money for production costs, but I don't think that is a reason
>> to publicly proclaim "We are not going to be talking to BLI ever"; somewhat
>> short-sighted and unprofessional in my opinion, especially when there are
>> alternatives:
>>
>>         The Society could ask for members to donate money specifically
>> for that purpose.  This is perhaps a long shot but there is no harm in
>>         asking.
>>
>>         The Society can work on new paint schemes for existing tooling.
>> I assume this would not require as much money up front.  Similarly,
>>         what about offering existing HO models in other scales?  What
>> effect would having the research on the prototype already complete have on
>>         costs?  BLI for example could offer their N&W A, J, Y6b, and H2a
>> in N scale.
>>
>>         The Society could partner with other railroad historical
>> societies or dealers to produce a model that is desired by all.  The K3
>> 4-8-2
>>         Water Buffaloes come to mind here.  The N&W and NKP (W&LE)
>> Societies should have an equal interest, and possibly also the Rio Grande
>> and
>>         RF&P Societies.  Missabe and C&O may be long shots.
>>
>> Regarding the canceled BLI CF cabooses, was this just because of lack of
>> orders?  The CF was one of several models canceled at the same time
>> suggesting other factors may have been at work.  Given that plastic
>> cabooses have been made for railroads such as DM&IR, I have a hard time
>> believing that N&W would not sell.  The AMB kit is simply not an option for
>> most model railroaders these days.
>>
>> Regarding the "mystery" manufacturer, I seem to recall a post on this
>> list that a new N&W model would be announced at the convention.  Is there
>> any word on that?
>>
>> Marty Flick
>>
>>
>> ---- NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> The extra $100K should cover an initial set of design changes,
>>> packaging, shipping and marketing costs.
>>>
>>> In prior agreements where the Society has had created a custom run of a
>>> specific model, let's say the RFP E's, the society agreed to purchase 100
>>> pieces of each of the two road numbers that Proto 2000 ran specifically for
>>> the society. P2K had already created all of the tooling for the E8 and all
>>> subsequent runs of alk roadnames were gravy for P2K. The Society sold each
>>> of the E8's at $100.00 ea, with a cost less than that, what I don’t
>>> remember exactly, so the society was able to make some money and provide
>>> goodies to the group.
>>>
>>> I do know that the Society has done several runs of various classes of
>>> coal cars and paint schemes with a couple of different manufacturers and
>>> they have sold well.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Russ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy Connecting. Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® 5
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Date: 7/11/17 13:08 (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Subject: RE: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>>
>>> Russ:
>>>
>>> Thank you for providing some hard data to think about!
>>>
>>> I’m curious about the numbers in your example.  $400 each times 1000
>>> units yields revenues of $400,000, vs an investment of $300,000.  So I’m
>>> guessing that the packaging and shipping costs, plus Society advertising
>>> costs, plus “cost of money” would amount to $100,000—or roughly $100 per
>>> unit.  Do I have that right?
>>>
>>> Is it the case that all custom product agreements entered into by the
>>> Society to date have been for diesels, rolling stock, and structure kits?
>>>
>>> Did the Society have a good experience with BLI for the N&W hopper
>>> cars?  …with Bowser for the VGN hopper cars?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Eric Bott
>>>
>>> From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On
>>> Behalf Of NW Modeling List
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 07:09
>>> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>>
>>> -D;
>>>
>>> IF the NWHS would proceed with an agreement with BLI to produce a
>>> locomotive, and in this case a Class M, the Society would pay for all
>>> production costs, including over runs. The society's initial outlay would
>>> be in the range of ~$300K, to start. The society would need to sell atleast
>>> 1,000 pieces at $400.00 ea in order to provide a profit back on the initial
>>> investment, plus cover packaging and shipping costs to BLI for product
>>> inspection and then shipping to ROA for final shipment to the customer.
>>> Additionally, the contact with BLI may include their right to sell the
>>> model as well, under their brand name after a specified period of time,
>>> whether or not the society has sold their entire inventory by the end of
>>> the contract date.
>>>
>>> While I don’t know the exact particulars of what the contract would be
>>> with BLI, I am guessing that the Society didn't see a true benefit in
>>> executing a contract with BLI for an M Class loco.
>>>
>>> In the past, the society has been successful in having custom runs
>>> produced of models that are already in production, such as the leased RF&P
>>> E-8'S and the leased ACL E-7'S, both of which were run through a contract
>>> with Proto 2000. Other successful projects have been completed with Bowser,
>>> Stewart and Intermountain.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Russ Goodwin
>>> Oakwood, GA
>>> Former NWHS Modelling Committee Chair
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy Connecting. Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® 5
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:
>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>> Date: 7/11/17 06:48 (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:
>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Sorry if I am confused, is the reason you do not want to work with bli
>>> because you need to pay for production?  Could you explain what you meant
>>> of it was some other business reason?  That explanation included a bunch of
>>> caps lock letters which is the equivalent of yelling but was short on
>>> reasons.
>>> -D
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 7:17 PM NW Modeling List <
>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>>> We are not going to be talking to BLI ever. With that said the ones that
>>> I Dean Taylor have been talking to on my own (Alex) are talking are
>>> interested with that said.THE NORFOLK AND WESTERN HISTORICAL SOCIETY IS NOT
>>> GOING TO PAY FOR PRODUCTION. So it may be awhile we need to so there is a
>>> market and that we have been lacking in. DEAN TAYLOR at NWHS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:
>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>> Date: 7/10/17 2:30 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Subject: Re: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>>
>>> who are the other manufactures being prodded to do some N&W engines like
>>> the M etc?
>>>
>>> I would not want to contact BLI till there's enough back support froom
>>> dealers, modelers, but it looks BLI is up to the task.
>>>
>>> Usually if you can make a model, it can find a buyer eventually.
>>>
>>> -Lynn.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/10/2017 1:36 AM, nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org<mailto:
>>> nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 20:38:47 -0400
>>>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:
>>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>>> To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: BLI limited exclusive run program
>>>> Message-ID: <mailman.653.1499605710.324.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
>>>> <mailto:mailman.653.1499605710.324.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>> If they can do a Class M, then they can do a Virginian PA as well. I'm
>>>> good
>>>>   for one of each.
>>>>
>>>> Greg Harrod
>>>> ====================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 07/08/2017 5:43:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I just read in MRC that BLI is doing a program to run exclusive
>>>> locomotives with groups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> !?!?!? Can we do a Class M !?!?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
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>
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