BLI limited exclusive run program

[NW Modeling List]

I boo booed and didnt change the subject line, there it is....

I look forward to anyone who can do -other- N&W steam than the standards.


-Lynn-

On 7/17/2017 12:05 PM, nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org wrote:
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:55:47 +0000 (UTC)
> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <mailman.1547.1500307545.324.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Marty,
> Apparently this is a topic of concern for many here. Personally, I'd be all for a plastic kit or RTR N&W cabin especially a CF, CG or CH. I see no reason to drop the subject as I think it's pertinent and needs consideration by the members (future buyers) and manufacturers.
> I don't see it as the Societies responsibility to fund such a project although various other groups have funded or sponsored model projects. That's a BOD decision and why we pick responsible folks to operate our Society and invest wisely.
>>From my understanding most models can be scaled up or down and produced from the one set of drawings or artwork. That's the quick, easy and cheap part of any project. The decision for BLI or others to not release these models in O, S, N or Z scale is probably a company decision where they feel they won't sell enough to cover costs. I don't know but can certainly understand.
> The K-3, while a great looking and impressive beast, wasn't a very popular engine with any of the railroads that owned them hence their gypsy status. I think the many Sunset brass models constantly for sale on feebay and hobby shops tells us something. They often go for pretty low prices as low as $200. I doubt if they could be produced and sold in plastic for that amount and I don/t think they would sell anyway. As to the other Societies going in as a collective group I don't think it would make any difference. I fail to see why C&O or DM&IR folks would want one?
> I think you are right about the cancelled CF project. If I remember correctly there were several projects they cancelled at that time. Perhaps it was more to over-stretching their priorities and less with lack of reservations. I remember contacting them at the time and asking several questions. They seemed very disinterested to me. One issue I asked about was the lack of a car with no numbers as they weren't offering many numbers. I felt an un-numbered car would increase sales quite a bit. Changing numbers isn't all that easy for most folks and besides......WHY when it isn't difficult not to print the numbers on the car. I'm willing to bet that most N&W modelers would purchase more than one car. Also, at that time PCM was a fairly new company and other customers and modelers voiced to me their reluctance to pay in advance for something unseen from a new company. I have to agree with those thoughts too.?
> I don't have time to build wooden craftsman kits any longer and so the AMB car isn't very interesting to me and many others. A kit or RTR plastic car would fill a huge void for N&W and many shortline modelers.
> Given the nature of the whole manufacturer process I don't understand producing one-off or similar models like the Pennsy S-2 turbine or C&O 490 class streamlined 4-6-4 where there was only one or a couple prototype(s) or a limited number of modelers to choose from but ignore something like a caboose for a railroad with a very large following. Yes, there are probably more Pennsy modelers than N&W modelers but the ones I know either don't want a turbine or want only one. Sort of like the Jawn Henry situation. Very limited market due to operating territory and period operated. I would think it a pretty risky venture to model one.
> Anyway, I think the topic is a valid one and needs to be talked about with the eventual goal of stirring enough interest among modelers and a manufacturer. If Walthers can make a fairly accurate ?DM&IR caboose I can't see why a CF or so couldn't be produced too.
> My 2?,Roger HuberDeer Creek Locomotive Works
>       From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>  To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>  Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:00 AM
>  Subject: RE: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>
> I hadn't been following this topic for a few days, which brings me to my first comment:? If we are going to continue this, can we please change the subject to something a little more on topic?
>
> Second, I can certainly understand the Society being hesitant to front all of the money for production costs, but I don't think that is a reason to publicly proclaim "We are not going to be talking to BLI ever"; somewhat short-sighted and unprofessional in my opinion, especially when there are alternatives:
>
> ? ? ? The Society could ask for members to donate money specifically for that purpose.? This is perhaps a long shot but there is no harm in
> ? ? ? asking.
>
> ? ? ? The Society can work on new paint schemes for existing tooling.? I assume this would not require as much money up front.? Similarly,
> ? ? ? what about offering existing HO models in other scales?? What effect would having the research on the prototype already complete have on
> ? ? ? costs?? BLI for example could offer their N&W A, J, Y6b, and H2a in N scale.
>
> ? ? ? The Society could partner with other railroad historical societies or dealers to produce a model that is desired by all.? The K3 4-8-2
> ? ? ? Water Buffaloes come to mind here.? The N&W and NKP (W&LE) Societies should have an equal interest, and possibly also the Rio Grande and
> ? ? ? RF&P Societies.? Missabe and C&O may be long shots.
>
> Regarding the canceled BLI CF cabooses, was this just because of lack of orders?? The CF was one of several models canceled at the same time suggesting other factors may have been at work.? Given that plastic cabooses have been made for railroads such as DM&IR, I have a hard time believing that N&W would not sell.? The AMB kit is simply not an option for most model railroaders these days.?
>
> Regarding the "mystery" manufacturer, I seem to recall a post on this list that a new N&W model would be announced at the convention.? Is there any word on that?
>
> Marty Flick
>
>
> ---- NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> Eric
>>
>> The extra $100K should cover an initial set of design changes, packaging, shipping and marketing costs.
>>
>> In prior agreements where the Society has had created a custom run of a specific model, let's say the RFP E's, the society agreed to purchase 100 pieces of each of the two road numbers that Proto 2000 ran specifically for the society. P2K had already created all of the tooling for the E8 and all subsequent runs of alk roadnames were gravy for P2K. The Society sold each of the E8's at $100.00 ea, with a cost less than that, what I don?t remember exactly, so the society was able to make some money and provide goodies to the group.
>>
>> I do know that the Society has done several runs of various classes of coal cars and paint schemes with a couple of different manufacturers and they have sold well.
>>
>> Regards
>> Russ
>>
>>
>>
>> Happy Connecting. Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 5
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>> Date: 7/11/17 13:08 (GMT-05:00)
>> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: RE: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>
>> Russ:
>>
>> Thank you for providing some hard data to think about!
>>
>> I?m curious about the numbers in your example.? $400 each times 1000 units yields revenues of $400,000, vs an investment of $300,000.? So I?m guessing that the packaging and shipping costs, plus Society advertising costs, plus ?cost of money? would amount to $100,000?or roughly $100 per unit.? Do I have that right?
>>
>> Is it the case that all custom product agreements entered into by the Society to date have been for diesels, rolling stock, and structure kits?
>>
>> Did the Society have a good experience with BLI for the N&W hopper cars?? ?with Bowser for the VGN hopper cars?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Eric Bott
>>
>> From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 07:09
>> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>
>> -D;
>>
>> IF the NWHS would proceed with an agreement with BLI to produce a locomotive, and in this case a Class M, the Society would pay for all production costs, including over runs. The society's initial outlay would be in the range of ~$300K, to start. The society would need to sell atleast 1,000 pieces at $400.00 ea in order to provide a profit back on the initial investment, plus cover packaging and shipping costs to BLI for product inspection and then shipping to ROA for final shipment to the customer. Additionally, the contact with BLI may include their right to sell the model as well, under their brand name after a specified period of time, whether or not the society has sold their entire inventory by the end of the contract date.
>>
>> While I don?t know the exact particulars of what the contract would be with BLI, I am guessing that the Society didn't see a true benefit in executing a contract with BLI for an M Class loco.
>>
>> In the past, the society has been successful in having custom runs produced of models that are already in production, such as the leased RF&P E-8'S and the leased ACL E-7'S, both of which were run through a contract with Proto 2000. Other successful projects have been completed with Bowser, Stewart and Intermountain.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Regards
>> Russ Goodwin
>> Oakwood, GA
>> Former NWHS Modelling Committee Chair
>>
>>
>> Happy Connecting. Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S? 5
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>> Date: 7/11/17 06:48 (GMT-05:00)
>> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>> Subject: Re: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>
>> Hi,
>> Sorry if I am confused, is the reason you do not want to work with bli because you need to pay for production?? Could you explain what you meant of it was some other business reason?? That explanation included a bunch of caps lock letters which is the equivalent of yelling but was short on reasons.
>> -D
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 7:17 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>> We are not going to be talking to BLI ever. With that said the ones that I Dean Taylor have been talking to on my own (Alex) are talking are interested with that said.THE NORFOLK AND WESTERN HISTORICAL SOCIETY IS NOT GOING TO PAY FOR PRODUCTION. So it may be awhile we need to so there is a market and that we have been lacking in. DEAN TAYLOR at NWHS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>> Date: 7/10/17 2:30 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: Re: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 170, Issue 2
>>
>> who are the other manufactures being prodded to do some N&W engines like
>> the M etc?
>>
>> I would not want to contact BLI till there's enough back support froom
>> dealers, modelers, but it looks BLI is up to the task.
>>
>> Usually if you can make a model, it can find a buyer eventually.
>>
>> -Lynn.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/10/2017 1:36 AM, nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 20:38:47 -0400
>>> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>> To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Subject: Re: BLI limited exclusive run program
>>> Message-ID: <mailman.653.1499605710.324.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:mailman.653.1499605710.324.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> If they can do a Class M, then they can do a Virginian PA as well. I'm good
>>> ? for one of each.
>>>
>>> Greg Harrod
>>> ====================================
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 07/08/2017 5:43:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> writes:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just read in MRC that BLI is doing a program to run exclusive
>>> locomotives with groups.
>>>
>>>
>>> !?!?!? Can we do a Class M !?!?
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>

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