EXTERNAL: Re: Selling personal items via the list

Fri Nov 2 11:13:22 EDT 2018

Todd:

I’m hoping that the BOD will decide to facilitate an on-line “exchange” for member-owned items.  My main reason is that I would expect more knowledgeable sellers and buyers of N&W and VGN items, and potentially rarer, more interesting items than might be offered on eBay, and no “commission take” from either end—to everyone’s benefit.  And, if I ever sell a N&W or VGN item, I’d like Society members to have first shot at buying it.

I don’t think that this market should be made via email or in the quarterly newsletter, though.  Rather, I suggest an on-line forum along the lines of the Brass Collectors and Operators Group on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/BrassCollect/.  The ~2250 folks who use this group are WAY more knowledgeable than the average person operating in the HO Brass arena on eBay.  By this, I mean that there are no dim bulbs trying to sell a $1500 brass engine “untested”, or with the admonition that “the photos are part of the description”, both of which are tantamount to “I don’t know what I have or am doing, so the burden of discovery is entirely on you, buyer”.  Also, buyers are sophisticated enough to not test an HO loco on 110VAC power, and then try to file a claim for an inoperative model.

I have bought several brass locos from people offering them in this forum, total value well over $3000.  Offers are ad-hoc, via a self-formatted facebook entry, with contact between prospective buyer and seller happening off-line.  Buyers keeping up with the facebook stream notice the offers, and contact the buyers via phone or email, off the facebook stream.  Details of individual deals are therefore private.  The deals that I have been involved in were very beneficial both ways because no 3rd party fees were involved, and so a reasonable price was struck where both parties got a benefit.  And I’ve made several extremely knowledgeable friends with whom I’d do business again on a handshake, or collaborate in a modeling venture.

The downside of this forum is that there is no security blanket, if one party to a deal is not dealing in good faith.  A fair part of the eBay fee structure constitutes an “insurance policy” to the buyer, just as a broker’s fee does.  In the case of N&WHS, if enrollment into the facebook buy/sell forum was limited to Society members (entirely possible, on the Facebook platform), then anybody not dealing in good faith would instantly develop an in-Society reputation that would also spread instantly; this wouldn’t help the first “stung” trading partner, but would give rise to a pretty daunting ostracism of a bad actor and discourage (or simply make impossible) 2nd malfeasances.  The Society could publish grading guidelines for models in various categories (brass motive power, brass rolling stock; same for plastic; unfinished kits; etc) to reduce possibility of mis-communications.  But the Society would not take financial responsibility for the integrity of a deal, nor issue sanctions against a bad-faith trader.

Look, I don’t want to receive 2,000 unsolicited emails per year offering N&W and VGN models.  Nor do I think it’s a good use of Society resources to typosit classified ads in the quarterly newsletter for member models offered for sale—and without photos, the ads would only be a means of first contact anyway.  Worse, bad actors could go undetected for years without the possibility of open feedback that is characteristic of these methods.  In contrast, I have seen a fairly lively ad hoc market in brass models appear in the Brass Collectors and Operators Group on Facebook (where extensive photo coverage of a model is easily accommodated), and I haven’t noticed anybody post-facto claiming injury in a deal on this site—which would be a very easy thing to do in a very public manner via the Facebook mechanism.  The likelihood of public exposure and ostracism seems to be promoting good trading behavior there, and I think it would operate even more powerfully in a private N&WHS trading forum on Facebook.

And who knows—maybe the modeler’s forum should move entirely to a Facebook platform—goodness knows that moderating the current email forum must take a lot of time and effort that I suspect would be entirely unnecessary on a Facebook platform.  The problem of repudiation of one’s input to the forum would be moot; there is no such thing as an anonymous post.  Truly egregious (e.g., racist or trolling) posts could precipitate ejection from the forum or the Society, while everything else could be policed by shared social values and consensus social pressure.

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 16:40
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Cc: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Selling personal items via the list

We shall discuss this matter at our next BOD meeting in early February.  As Frank stated, all comments, for and against, are welcome and will be considered.  Thanks to all.

Todd Arnett
President, NWHS

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
Date: 11/1/18 5:17 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>>, nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Selling personal  items via the list

For years it was the policy, decided by the BOD, that we would not allow advertisements for items that were not carried in  the commissary. This policy was reviewed and affirmed more than once over the years. After reviewing the question again, and the flurry of comments posted today, this policy will be discussed at the next BOD meeting in February. There are many factors to be considered, and all the comments received will be taken into account. Thank you all for your interest.

Frank Bongiovanni

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 1, 2018, at 5:05 PM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Mark,

Train shows are a good way to buy/sell however many of us live in areas where there is very little or no activity like that and must rely on groups or feebay.

Here in NW Arkansas it's model train purgatory! There's usually one train show within 70 miles per year. Many folks also have transportation issues to consider too.

Most of my groups allow buying/selling with some limits such as:

must be related to the group subject matter
transactions must be conducted offline
no formal business ads or sales
no long lists to eat up space and only mention of item & contact info
certain days of the week or month to announce deals

I think with any or all of these restrictions the N&W group could function as it should as well as comply with members ability to do some selling.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works

________________________________
From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Cc: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>>
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Selling personal items via the list

to me if your going to see train  or model railroad stuff why not sell it on the train shows i admit i have never sold nor bought  much the only thing i have is a model of j 611 i would think train shows dealers that sell trains equipment and so on do well there but maybe you might get a better price there just something to think about
mark toewe
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