NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 187, Issue 19
NW Modeling List
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Sat Dec 8 12:42:42 EST 2018
Jeff Wood; please contact me off list
Frank
fbongiovanni at gmail.com
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 6:48 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:
> Frank
>
> Would it be possible to get a copy of the C&O gondola file?
> I have a guy in Missouri that I purchase 3D items fro at a really good
> price.
> I would like to get him the file and see what he would charge for one.
> He is working on designing the Otway station in n-scale for me.
> I have seen items on shapeways and wonder why they charge so much for
> items.
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Jeff Wood
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 11/24/18, <nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 187, Issue 19
> To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
> Date: Saturday, November 24, 2018, 1:35 AM
>
> Send NW-Modeling-List mailing list
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks (NW Modeling List)
> 2. Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks (NW Modeling List)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:34:59 -0500
> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
> Message-ID: <mailman.4653.1543018945.9817.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="UTF-8"
>
> Forgot something: senility isn't for
> the faint of heard.
>
> One of our guys who's very good at 3D
> printing did the design work for
> a model of the C&O gon and sent the
> design to Shapeways. He had them
> do one. The regular price for one
> would have been about $150, and I
> believe Shapeways has raised their
> prices since then.
>
> Frank Bongiovanni
>
> On 11/23/18, Frank Bongiovanni <fbongiovanni at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > A few years ago three of us
> started on an article on the battleship
> > gons of the the three Pochahontas
> roads. It started to swell into a
> > book that no one wanted to
> publish, even POD, so we're taking it back
> > to an article or a short series,
> and Ken has even expressed mild
> > interest. So without giving
> the whole thing away (LOL)
> >
> > We thought there would be about
> six battleship gon types. Over the
> > three roads, and two other
> one-offs, we identified over a dozen prior
> > to 1960. N&W had about 6
> (without digging for the Dow book),
> > Virginian had 6, C&O had
> one. The one-offs and rebuilds make the
> > numbers kind of fuzzy depending
> how you count.
> >
> > Getting away from the gons,
> N&W had at least two (I hope)somewhat
> > experimental 100 ton hoppers, both
> with six wheel trucks, and PRR had
> > one. It appears that these
> were annoying in most service, so the
> > larger size gons and hoppers
> didn't progress for a while.
> >
> > Modeling: there have been a few
> models of the Virginian cars, of
> > varying accuracy and
> quality. Westerfield did a wonderful GKa, and
> > I'm not sure if the new owners
> have rerun it or intend to. I'm not
> > sure what's more difficult:
> finding the kit, or finding one that has
> > been well put together.
> >
> > The Red Ball and Concept Models
> battleship gons are probably best
> > ignored, IMHO. They aren't
> right for anything, but maybe can be
> > bashed.
> >
> > Frank Bongiovanni
> >
> > On 11/23/18, NW Modeling List
> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >> Ken:
> >>
> >> I agree that the Dow book
> covered the N&W battleship. I recall that it
> >> also
> >> covered a C&O and a PRR
> battleship, where I'm using "battleship" to cover
> >> any gon with 100t or higher
> capacity and 6-wheel, plain journal trucks.
> >> (The latter eliminates the
> modern 100t+ gons from consideration.)
> >>
> >> Didn't Westerfield do the
> N&W battleship? If so, even at $50+ per kit,
> >> that
> >> would have to be a FAR better
> option than going through the agony of
> >> developing a 3D model and
> having a bespoke printing done. I doubt that a
> >> printing service would charge
> less than $50 per car anyway, even if it
> >> was
> >> done as a "flat kit".
> >>
> >> -Eric Bott
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NW-Modeling-List
> [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]
> On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of NW Modeling List
> >> Sent: Friday, November 23,
> 2018 07:33
> >> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>;
> NW Modeling List
> >> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> >> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> N&W built a one of a kind
> experimental hopper:
> >>
> >> http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=25241
> >>
> >> Perhaps that is what you were
> thinking of. I found no reference to an
> >> article in the index search,
> however, I believe that Andrew Dow covered
> >> it
> >> in his book.
> >>
> >> Regarding the 3-D printing,
> there is truly some excellent work being done
> >> on
> >> those type of things. In going
> to shows in the last year, I saw some
> >> beautiful work done on
> ET&WNC cars, and wondered the same thing. It takes
> >> someone to develop the
> drawings for such, which has to be a labor of love
> >> for someone to do.
> >>
> >> Since this is closer to a
> modeling subject, I am also copying it to the
> >> modeling list
> >>
> >> Ken Miller
> >>
> >>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 3:48
> AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Recent discussions with a
> friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought
> >>> to
> >>> memory of a 6 wheel hopper
> I thought was VGN, but could also be N&W.
> >>> There were either photos
> or drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone
> >>> through and found the VGN
> car, but not the style I am remembering.
> >>> A friend of mine had his
> father cut the shape out of wood some years
> >>> ago.
> >>> I got 6 wheel trucks for
> them, but never finished them.
> >>> Does anyone know or
> remember these cars, and where the drawing/photo
> >>> was?
> >>>
> >>> I know with all the talk
> of the manufacturers closing down, and really
> >>> putting the squeeze on
> available models, has anyone considered 3D
> >>> printing?
> >>> I have quite a few
> hoppers, excavators, front end loaders ect that were
> >>> 3D
> >>> printed. I know they are
> not perfect and need extra attention, but after
> >>> putting micro-train trucks
> under them, they look quite nice and work
> >>> fine.
> >>> 3D printing could offer
> unlimited items to manufacture, that otherwise
> >>> would never be made except
> for scratch building.
> >>>
> >>> PS in the March/April 2006
> issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front
> >>> covers, so if your issue
> is missing its front cover, I have it.
> >>>
> >>> Jeff Wood
> >>>
> ________________________________________
> >>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >>> To change your
> subscription go to
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> >>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List
> archives at
> >>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >>
> >>
> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go
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> >>
> ________________________________________
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> >> To change your subscription go
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> >>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 21:55:19 -0500
> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
> Message-ID: <mailman.4665.1543028268.9817.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=utf-8
>
> Eric
>
> This is not a gon, much less a
> battleship gon. It was an experimental, one-of a-kind
> hopper, class H-15, No. 76950.
>
> Dow had this to say about it:
>
> Another experimental car of 1963 did
> not last so long. This was the class H15, road number
> 76950, which was a 150 ton car built in September 1963 to
> examine the possibility of using such large cars in
> unit-train service. With a coupled length of 69? 3? it
> was nearly half as long again as the H11 and H13 100 ton
> cars. It rode on six-wheel trucks which used 61?2?x12?
> journals and roller bearings. The ends of the trucks
> projected beyond the ends of the car and thus, unlike the HR
> and HV designs of over 40 years earlier, excessively long
> slope sheets were avoided. Twelve pairs of discharge
> doors, much the same as those of the H13 car, were used, and
> in other details of design the H15 was very much an
> elongated version of the H13 design. However the
> center sill was a 41.2 lb. Z section. The sides were
> tied together with five tubular braces below the top side
> angles, and the slope sheets, again at 45?, ran up to the
> top end angles and dispensed with end sheets.
>
> The H15 was extensively welded. The
> excessive use of welding in a coal car can lead to rigidity
> and an inability of the body to absorb vibration. No doubt
> the use of welding was to save weight and, possibly, to
> experiment with welding techniques.
> Although the H15 was regarded as a 150
> ton car its rated capacity was reduced from 300,000 lbs to
> 290,000 lbs in 1965.
>
> The experiment did not last for
> long. Although its later rating of 145 tons recognized
> its limitations, the H15 had a cubic capacity which, loaded
> with 54 lbs. per cu.ft. coal, would never carry more than
> 133 tons. And, just as the H12 standard car had been
> judged by the harsh realities of operating economics, so was
> the H15. Its light weight per ton of capacity, using
> the 133 ton figure just mentioned, was 761 lbs. An
> equivalent calculation for the H11, already in service, was
> 713 lbs., and for the H11a, being designed in September 1963
> when the H15 was being built, gave a figure of 608 lbs -
> considerably better The extensive use of cars of the size of
> the H15 would have required considerable alteration of
> facilities such as those at Lamberts Point, and this
> contributed to its demise. Car 76950 was withdrawn
> from service in 1968.
>
> My commentary on 3-D printing was not
> an endorsement on doing this car, in fact it was unrelated
> to any particular car, but a comment in general on work on
> 3-D printed cars I have seen at shows in the past year.
>
> Ken Miller
>
> > On Nov 23, 2018, at 10:24 AM, NW
> Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ken:
> >
> > I agree that the Dow book covered
> the N&W battleship. I recall that it also covered
> a C&O and a PRR battleship, where I'm using "battleship"
> to cover any gon with 100t or higher capacity and 6-wheel,
> plain journal trucks. (The latter eliminates the
> modern 100t+ gons from consideration.)
> >
> > Didn't Westerfield do the N&W
> battleship? If so, even at $50+ per kit, that would
> have to be a FAR better option than going through the agony
> of developing a 3D model and having a bespoke printing
> done. I doubt that a printing service would charge
> less than $50 per car anyway, even if it was done as a "flat
> kit".
> >
> > -Eric Bott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]
> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
> > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018
> 07:33
> > To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>;
> NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> > Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > N&W built a one of a kind
> experimental hopper:
> >
> > http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=25241
> >
> > Perhaps that is what you were
> thinking of. I found no reference to an article in the index
> search, however, I believe that Andrew Dow covered it in his
> book.
> >
> > Regarding the 3-D printing, there
> is truly some excellent work being done on those type of
> things. In going to shows in the last year, I saw some
> beautiful work done on ET&WNC cars, and wondered the
> same thing. It takes someone to develop the drawings for
> such, which has to be a labor of love for someone to do.
> >
> > Since this is closer to a modeling
> subject, I am also copying it to the modeling list
> >
> > Ken Miller
> >
> >> On Nov 23, 2018, at 3:48 AM,
> NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Recent discussions with a
> friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought to memory of a
> 6 wheel hopper I thought was VGN, but could also be
> N&W.
> >> There were either photos or
> drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone through and found
> the VGN car, but not the style I am remembering.
> >> A friend of mine had his
> father cut the shape out of wood some years ago. I got 6
> wheel trucks for them, but never finished them.
> >> Does anyone know or remember
> these cars, and where the drawing/photo was?
> >> I know with all the talk of
> the manufacturers closing down, and really putting the
> squeeze on available models, has anyone considered 3D
> printing?
> >> I have quite a few hoppers,
> excavators, front end loaders ect that were 3D printed. I
> know they are not perfect and need extra attention, but
> after putting micro-train trucks under them, they look quite
> nice and work fine. 3D printing could offer unlimited items
> to manufacture, that otherwise would never be made except
> for scratch building.
> >>
> >> PS in the March/April 2006
> issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front covers, so if
> your issue is missing its front cover, I have it.
> >>
> >> Jeff Wood
> >>
> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go
> to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List
> archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
> >
> ________________________________________
> > NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list
> > Browse the NW-Modeling-List
> archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/
> >
> ________________________________________
> > NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list
> > Browse the NW-Modeling-List
> archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol
> 187, Issue 19
> *************************************************
>
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