EXTERNAL: RE: Bored with steam

[NW Modeling List]

Brent:

I, too, was fascinated by this question, since Baldwin-Westinghouse made both the LC-2 and the EL-3a's, and not all that far apart in time.  One issue with the LC-1's was their long rigid wheelbase, which was required by the centrally located jack-shaft.  Both the LC-2 and the EL-3a configurations fixed that problem.

Anyway, I bought a set of LC-2 plans from the Archives, to compare with a set of EL-3a plans I had.  I have attached the results as a .pdf file (2 pages).  If the Moderator can't pass on the .pdf file, he hereby has my permission to send you my personal contact info.  Send me your email address, and I will send you the file.

At the bottom line, you'd have to extend the lead axel frame by 5.5" (the trailing axel locations seem to be the same), and the driver diameters will be too small by 1".  The spacings of the jackshaft and all drivers are the same.  I haven't got a clue what mods would be required to an Alco models frame, but I am very damn certain I wouldn't want to try modifying an OMI frame from one of their EL-3a models-- those are immense pains in the butt to begin with.

If we go in for two Alco models EL-3a sets (to make 3 LC-2 sets), I'd take either 2 or 4 of the locos at either 1/3 or 2/3 the total cost-- your pick.  I'd then like to buy either two or four of your bodies when you get them printed!

-Eric Bott




-----Original Message-----
From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 14:07
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: RE: Bored with steam

I too have longed for an LC-2 to run with my sets of LC-1s, so the statement below of "unless somebody does a 3D-printed body set that I could put on a VGN EL-3a chassis",   makes me ask the question:  from a dimensional aspect, just how far off is the running gear of the EL-3a as compared to the LC-2?  To my untrained eye, when comparing photographs and contemplating just such a model conversion, they look to be extremely close.  But without a way to do a side to side comparison, I really can't tell if the driver diameters and spacing are really close enough or if this would still just be a stand-in level compromise. 

Can anyone help clarify the specifics of such a comparison before I invest too much time/effort/$$ in getting an LC-2 car body designed for 3D printing?

Thanks,
Brent
________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer

________________________________
From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> on behalf of NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 12:00 PM
To: NW Modeling List
Cc: NW Modeling List
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: RE: Bored with steam

Stephen:

Since I'm a juice-jack enthusiast, all I can say is, "Cry me a river!"  If I wasn't into brass, the very best I could do would be to run GG-1's (and maybe soon P-5a's) from Mullens up to Clark's Gap, and on to Roanoke.  And even being into brass, it's unlikely that I'll be able to own or run an LC-2 set in my lifetime, unless somebody does a 3D-printed body set that I could put on a VGN EL-3a chassis, or some decently close European model chassis.

Oh, yeah-and try to find a main-line electric locomotive preserved in a museum!  I only know of a MILW EP-2, an IT Class B and a Class C, an NYC S-motor, and a PRR P-5a here at the St Louis Museum of Transport; and an EF-1 set up in Duluth; plus a smattering of GG-1's; a DD-1 set in Strasburg; an EL-C in Roanoke; a CSS&SB Little Joe, an IT Class B, and an NYC S-class at IRM; and an SN steeple cab in Sacramento.  That's 10 classes total, even including the marginally mainline IT and SN locos.  There are precisely zero N&W, NH, or other VGN electrics preserved anywhere that I'm aware of.  That's pretty slim pickins, compared to the variety of steam locos preserved around the US-even though we all regret the small fraction they represent of what once existed.

But you know, I wouldn't find it all that easy to appreciate a 16th F-unit, or a 10th E-unit, or a 30th road switcher (of any sort) on my layout.  Their intrinsic modularity certainly suits them for a variety of applications on a layout (as on the prototype), and that just means less variety in either venue.

And if I couldn't hand off a train between steam and electric power, I'd lose operational complexity that I value.  And if an ATSF 3500-class Pacific didn't look different from a Chicago & Alton P-16, or a NH I-4e, or a T&P P-1b, or that N&W E-2 Roger was mooning after, or ANY streamlined steam other than a Milwaukee A, a N&W J, a PRR K-4s, or a Commodore Vanderbilt), what would be the point of collecting?  NO model producer could possibly afford the mold costs to do that kind of variety in plastic.  And only this year are we likely to see the second mass-produced US electric locomotive type in plastic.

So, what's wrong with brass?

I'll assert as a matter of fact that anybody who wants variety in a steam collection OR and electric collection absolutely must collect brass, with a few "standards" represented in plastic.  And with modern plastic steam models going for $300+, and diesels going for $250+, is it really that much of a stretch to pay $500 for a good looking M, M-1, or M-2 in brass?  Or $400 for a PFM S-1a?  Or $900 - $1500 for a really good looking Y-2, Y-3, Y-4, Y-5, Y-6, or Y-6a?  (Yeah, OK Roger, I get that the E-2 options are (i) bad, or (ii) none.  But face facts, dude-there ain't never gonna be an plastic E-2 model.)

Yes, you can substitute 4 Genesis GP-9's at $290 list each for a used NJCB Y-2 or Y-3 at <$900 plus 1xDCC (or $1000 - $1500 for a used Key Y-4, Y-5, Y-6 or Y-6a, plus 1x DCC, or $1800 - $2400 for a used DP model) on your layout to pull a coal drag.  You can trade your BLI A ($500 list) for a pair or trio of Genesis F-units (at $280 list each), or a pair of Genesis ES-44AC's (at $310 list each) to pull a hot-shot freight and give up passenger traffic entirely.  You can raze your coal towers, roundhouses and passenger stations, fill in your turntable and ash pits, close down half your coal mines, and give up helper service operations.  But I question whether the supposed economy of plastic diesels is really all that compelling compared to looking into the used brass market.  And I wonder whether a tapeworm couldn't operate most layouts under the modern "streamlined operations" paradigm of the 1970's and 1980's.

The variety you were looking for is there, if you had been willing to learn about the used brass market.  You can get every Y-class from Y-2 on (most from multiple producers), Z-1a (two producers) and Z-1b, all the M's (several from two producers), a G-1, A (multiple producers), J (all significant variants), S-1 and S-1a, a Jawn Henry (two producers), K-1, K-2, K-2a (streamlined and not), a fair E-3, and even a crappy E-2.  And it's really not all that comparatively expensive, unless your layout is built on a 30" or less radius standard, which seems unlikely since you were complaining about running A and Y-6b models.

And (even more curiously), with the N&W, you could have chosen to model the 1945 - 1955 era, and had it all.  S'up with that??

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 21:42
To: 'NW Modeling List' <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: Bored with steam

There is a face book page for N&W modelers with some excellent photos and models posted to the site.
Some one on the site posted a survey of era or eras that members are modeling with the 70s-80s era being most actively modeled.
The survey got me to think about the era that I model. Having modeled the steam era so many years, I thought how far the variety of models have advanced. To say the least VERY LITTLE N&W steam models have become available to fill the void of needed models (except for brass) of 0-8-0's, K's, Z's, Y3a's, Y4's, Y5's, Y6's, Y6a's, M's, E's, and so on! After 35+ years and very little RTR models available, I have abandoned steam and also moved to the 70's-80's era.
So much is available that I can model with so much more locomotive power ( I get tired of just seeing and running a J, Y6b, A, and a Y3 over and over).
Yes I know that there are early diesels, but I need more than a small handful of steam.
Besides, what about all the things that can be done with diesels, that could be done with steam - Lighted marker lights front and rear, lighted cab lights, stoker lights, ashpan lights, etc.
I know some scales even have steam coming out of the whistle when blown. When will we see new steam models or are there enough to support steam anymore?
Just some thoughts -just bored with steam.
Stephen Rineair
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