Boredom? Just Say No.

Sat Feb 23 15:40:49 EST 2019

Eric,

I must confess I find your NH EL2b interesting.  I'm afraid that the Alcos
aren't so rare as to make that a sacrilege. If anybody does that to a
Global Outlet, please don't tell me.  What gives me a stomach ache is the
MTH "Virginian" triplex, with multiple flaws, including the wrong wheel
arrangement.  The first Bachman ATSF 2-10-4 with the wrong tender, when
Bachman had the right one already, gives me a headache.

That said, I do a clinic "Philosophy, Science Fiction, and Model
Railroading", and part of the Philosophy is finding your own threshold of
tolerance (or pain).  My good friend Harold Davenport has pointed out the
flaws in my two most expensive pieces of brass, but I cherish them, was
pleased to get them, and I'm not going to "fix" them, because although I
didn't purchase them as an investment, I want my wife or daughter to get a
good price for them if I get run over by a train in Southern West
Virginia.  There's a very fine Virginian modeler, whose layout is so far
beyond even my plans, who is happy with his MTH triplex, has hundreds of
hoppers in the accumulation of which he did not look at the ORER to get a
prototypical "mix", and he's having fun.  His emphasis is in prototypical
operation, the layout is designed with that in mind, and it is fabulous.

Your priorities, Steve Rinear's ( I've known Steve for years and got my
Overland ELCs from him, which are still wunnerful--thanks Steve), and mine,
and half the Virginian Crazies, are all different. There's room in this
hobby, and this Society,  for all of us.

So, Eric; you and I have had a few of these back and forths on this list
over the years, and some civil disagreements.  How about coming to a
convention some time and we can get into it over beverages (shameless plug).

Frank Bongiovanni

On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> Frank:
>
> I agree that the Bachmann EL-C's are quite good models.
>
> Now I'm going to send shockwaves through the NWHS:  One of my earliest
> brass purchases was an Alco EL-2b set.  I (much later) managed to buy one
> of the Global Outlet sets, and quickly realized I wanted another-- wow,
> what a great model!
>
> So, what does a juice-jack guy do with an unpainted Alco EL-2b set, when
> he also has two factory painted Global Outlet sets?
>
> Well, see attached photos-- but get a stiff drink, sit down and read below
> before looking at them!
>
> The answer is, turn it into a NH EF-5.  Now, before everybody mules and
> pukes about this, recognize that N&W gave NH a stellar deal on the EL-C's,
> making them NH's EF-4's.  I'd bet a paycheck that N&W also offered NH a
> steal on the EL-2b's as well, but the NH turned them down.  Why?  Because
> they were motor-generator sets.  The NH's EF-2's from GE were also
> motor-generator sets, and the worst locomotives NH ever bought, but for an
> odd reason.
>         Uniquely among all of NH's moveable bridges (swing, bascule, and
> vertical lift) along the electrified Shoreline district, the wires over the
> Cos Cob bridge on the Mianus river were gapped.  As trains transited the
> bridge, the pantographs would raise to their highest extent, and run free
> until the sloped wire at the other end forced them back down to the
> standard 22' wire height.  This wasn't a problem until the EF-2's.
> Apparently when the EF-2's re-contacted the wire, it was a 50/50
> proposition whether the phase converters in them would "catch" the right
> phase.  If not, the motor-generator set would be thrown violently into
> reverse.  Must have been several face-prints on the front windows, and flat
> wheels, before NH and GE figured out that problem.  So the EF-2's were
> relegated to service on either side of (but not across) the Mianus River--
> and since that was just about smack dab between Cedar Hill yards and the
> Oak Point transfer bridges, there was next to zero utility to that.
>         Now, some may be wondering whether the Hell Gate Bridge could
> withstand the immense weight of the EL-2b sets.  Get real-- there are
> credible architectural studies that have determined that Hell Gate Bridge
> will be the last human artifact standing after every other building in the
> NYC area has long since crumbled to the ground.  The EF-3's were 246 tons
> (more weight and horsepower than an EL-2b single unit), and the bridge had
> no restrictions about how many EF-3's could be on it at any given time,
> regardless of direction of travel. And recall that the HGB was 4-tracked at
> the time.  NH routinely ran trios of 174t EF-4's (pardon me, EL-C's) on
> trains across the bridge without restricting other traffic across the
> bridge in any way.  And, do you seriously believe that the spindly bridge
> at Bud could possibly compare in strength with that re-curved HGB arch?
>
> All NH would have had to do to run the EL-2b's successfully would have
> been to close the wire gap across the Cos Cob bridge.  Given that they had
> already done that decades previously across the Pelham Bay draw bridge,
> plus those at Westport and Bridgeport, with NO problems, that would have
> been a simple solution.  But those scoundrels McGinnis and Alpert (may they
> roast in Hell) had been trying to "kill the wire" for their entire tenure,
> and just would not approve that AFE.
>
> OK, now that your veins are standing out and your fists are clenched...
> answer me this:  Would it not have been cool to see the EL-2b lifetime
> extended 25 years, and to have photos of them crossing the Hell Gate Bridge
> (even in NH colors)?  Yeah, I think so too.  Oh, and you know that nicely
> re-painted EL-C in the VA Museum Of Transportation?  It's there because NH
> gave the EL-Cs a new lease on life.  Would it not have been incredibly cool
> to have an EL-2b set there too, instead of having been scrapped in 1959?
> Yeah, I think that too.
>
> All in all, a satisfactory use of an Alco EL-2b set.
>
> Paint by Don Silberbauer of Model Memories.  Photos on his layout (those
> are his NH catenary tower products; he also does reasonable VGN catenary
> structures.)  I did the decal artwork, and had them printed by Highball
> Graphics.
>
> One other odd historical note about the NH EF-2's:  One was relegated to
> test service at the NH's Van Nest electric repair facility.  It was placed
> on a stub siding in the Van Nest yard, a pantograph raised to the wire, and
> its motor-generator set used to produce 660VDC.  But its traction motors
> were disconnected, and the generator output was run on a cheater cord to a
> short section of 3rd rail on an adjacent track.  This juice was used to
> test the NH's fleet of dual-powered (11000VAC/660VDC) passenger equipment
> (locos and mu units) after the shops did their refurbishments.  Definitely
> a pre-OSHA enterprise!
>
> If you all are good (and I mean REAL good-- NO endless carping about
> ignominious use of a VGN/N&W model), I'll post some sketches of NH's
> alternate paint concepts for the EF-4's.  I may have to snag a few more of
> those good Bachmann EL-C models, Frank, and do some more "what if" decals.
>
> -Eric Bott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On
> Behalf Of NW Modeling List
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 20:40
> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Possible solutions; Was Bored With Steam
>
> In addition t[o Sunset, and Possibly PSC, LMB did an N&W M.  I have one
> and am more than pleased with it.  They are available if you look and are
> patient.  Bargains show up at train shows, and, sadly, estate sales.  And
> since I like working on brass and diecast I'll admit to being a sometime
> "bottom feeder" on eBay, and looking for the magic words "does not run",
> "not known if it runs [it doesn't]", or "needs work".  And sometimes a few
> bucks on detail parts [also often available cheap as they have "matured" at
> shops because "there's no call for them].  And it can be fun working on a
> diecast locomotive to more clearly resemble a specific prototype.  Also
> lets you think what some of us, or our elders, went through years back.
> When I got into HO in 1969 there was one Virginian model that was even
> somewhat close:
> the Varney battleship gon (card sides).
>
> Electrics: Eric et al; you're not "stuck with brass" if you're willing to
> go 1956 or later.  In addition to the Alco/KMT ELC and the Overland
> (Ajin?)ELC, the Bachman ELC is quite respectable, I think.  Oh; Alco EL2b's
> and EL3's are available if you're willing to work on them; or if you can
> trade something you like to do, and can do, with someone who likes working
> on brass.
>
> Frank Bongiovanni [who has two other peoples EL2b's on the bench now].
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