EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Tue May 14 14:56:33 EDT 2019

Hi, Eric.
I think we need to keep it as simple as possible. State you have XXXX for sale, general condition and price wanted or for trade, etc. Standards don't work. Like you said what you consider a great paint job may not please another person. As a custom painter I'm very critical and I find few items meet my standards or requirements. Years ago Terry Industries was one of the first custom outfits in VA. They painted a lot of stuff for PFM. They did a great paint application and decaling. Considered the best in the industry at that time. They never painted the wheels and to me I'd rather have a naked brass engine than one 1/2 painted. So, opinions vary greatly as to condition and all.
I think listings like HOseeker and most RR groups allow this and some have different requirements. Some allow you to list things while others prefer just a For Sale, Wanted or For Trade notation and brief listing referring to an OFFLIST conversation. 
I'm against having to fill out a form and prefer just to state I have something for sale, name and email contact.
Remember................KISS!
Just my 2¢.
Roger HuberDeer Creek Locomotive Works 

    On Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 1:26:09 PM CDT, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:  

Jeff:

Well, I had hoped that the “pull-down” menu approach would take most of the seller’s labor out of listing, but the consensus doesn’t agree.  My taste in “excellent paint”, or “runs well”, or “light weathering”, or “no issues” might be different than yours, which could be rendered less critical by referring to published common standards.  Our prototype railroads accepted that premise, and I suspect that every model I buy is not much more or less significant an investment to me than the rolling stock and structures they bought was to them!

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org>On Behalf Of NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 12:35
To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Cc: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

The comprehensive listing format would be a good thing, not just for this sale list but for our executors. It might take me the rest of my life to fill it out though!

Jeff Cornelius 

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On Tuesday, May 14, 2019, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Well, as I suspected it might,  my posting elicited a storm of comment, and I think it’s very clear that the overwhelming majority (certainly of those who are very active and influential in the Modeling List) doesn’t want anything more than a post-it board for selling/buying.  I can live with that, but as a consequence just won’t buy from anybody who isn’t frequently active on the List and therefore hasn’t got “skin in the game” in the List’s other community benefits.  I have no idea whether that will be a large or a small lost opportunity, but I know that without eBay’s Buyer Protection policies, I wouldn’t be using eBay withoutsome personal connection to trading partners.

I do think it would be beneficial to allow List members to opt into or out of receiving sales offers, if that’s an easy “do”.  I’m a bit nervous of having my In Box crammed with lots of high res photos.

On the really good side of the ledger, I think the implementation burden has gotten much smaller—the List itself (or an identically functional second “Sales List”) should be a simple and adequate mechanism for what the majority want; all that would be required is permission for sellers to use the List in this new way, and (maybe) for moderators to chivvy sellers to post a SOLD note when a sale is consummated.  And amen to whoever suggested that every listing should include scale information!

Todd, thanks again for your willingness to instantiate this!

-Eric

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org>On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 16:03
To: 'NW Modeling List' <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Eric,

  Thank you for your input.  I will forward your recommendations to the two moderators for their consideration. As previously stated, the BOD established four basic rules and also concluded that the moderators shall operated and govern the list as they deem necessary. I’m sure your input will be of tremendous aid to them.  Many thanks.

Todd Arnett

From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]On Behalf Of NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 3:17 PM
To: NW Modeling List
Cc: NW Modeling List
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Todd:

Assuming you are not considering an auction format (for which there are several 3rd party solutions that the Societycould adopt, but I don’t recommend it), it seems to me that the “spade work” for the selling list should (by design) be as simple as possible.  That said, I think that most of us haven’t thought through the implications enough to understand how involved the minimum requirements might be, and how much work you are facing to stand this activity up.  I really appreciate your willingness to do this!

I suggest that we need a standard form to fill out that would prompt sellers to the useful information that should go in every listing.  I include one in .pdf form as an attachment, with the intent that it be cannon fodder for the List participants to improve on.  (It covers the things Iwish every seller would include in their listings!)  Once the content of the form is agreed on, the Society could provide electronic forms that could be filled out on-line.  I would also like the Society to publish a standard “Rating Scale” for models, and have included a strawman set for comment in the attachment.

My sense that one hard part of this will be to figure out how to host and “serve” all the photographs that are required to properly depict a model for sale, and whether there should be a limit to the number or data storage size requirement imposed.  I do feel that most models can be adequately described in 8 or fewer photos, and if more are really required, a seller can provide contact information, and provide photos off-list to prospective buyers.  The simpler but less helpful approach would be for ALL photo exchange to be done off-list.

Another point worth considering is how long listings should persist, and what duration of archive for listings and photos would provide probative evidence if the sale results in any disagreement between seller and buyer.  Personally, I value ratings of trade outcomes and trading partners on forums like eBay and Amazon, and hope that the Society can create a means to collect and present persistent feedback.  Maybe the listings (absent photos, but with feedback from both parties) could be maintained accessible permanently.  This implies that sellers and buyers would be required to have persistent identities for all of their transactions, which in turn implies formal identity, log-in, and authentication management.  Ugh.

With regard to auction functionality, sellers can always approximate a Dutch auction format by issuing a first listing at a “high” price, and then lowering their asking at whatever rate makes sense until somebody buys the model.

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org>On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 06:24
To: NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Mr. Huber,

 No intention to demean anyone, accept my apologies if the tone suggested such.  My point was that we had to prioritize our efforts and due to aforementioned circumstances, the convention was top priority.  The convention is our largest source of revenue even though only six percent +/- of the membership attend. If the convention goes wrong or is lacking, that six percent will strongly voice their opinions and could have negative effects regarding attendance at future conventions.

  I hope the selling lists prosper and yield good finds for folks. I have a surplus of items that I hope to put on the list, I just need to find the time.  Thanks.

Todd Arnett

On Saturday, May 11, 2019, 8:10:13 AM EDT, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

I don't wish to stir the pot but your comment that "the convention benefits the society and it's members.The lists, however, will only benefit a few and is also a free service " I find demeaning to many of us MEMBERS. 

We all would like to attend the conventions but many due to distance, age, finances and physical restrictions can not attend such events grudgingly. Not to take away from all the efforts of those working to make the convention interesting and a success. I appreciate their efforts and the burden of accomplishing the task. I also appreciate those who will be monitoring the sale list will have a busy and thankless job ahead of them.

There are probably a large portion of members who will check the lists and use those services as well but to be cast off as a bother is rude.Convention attendees or not we are all members and deserve some respect.

Just my 2¢.

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

On Friday, May 10, 2019, 12:35:33 PM CDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Todd,

No snide intended; but based on your comments at the convention, it seemed that things had been "ready" for quite some time and just lingering. I look forward to the sales list being activated, as I'm sure many other members will as well. Thanks.

Jim

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:32 AM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Jim,

  Perhaps I am reading your commentary as snide but I am propelled to explain this matter so that everyone is aware of the trappings.

  Yes, the lists were approved quite some time ago.  However, the planning of the convention took priority as the convention benefits the society and it's members. The lists, however, will only benefit a few and is also a free service which we are glad to supply. Also remember that this convention was "dumped" on Ken, Frank and myself as the original chairman and co-chairman vacated their positions and left the society. We are proud to do the work but we also have other society matters to handle along with our home life and day jobs.

  If you recall, I stated to you in the business meeting that I would give the moderators the green light to proceed upon returning home for the convention. I did so on Tuesday and Dr. Greer has came through.  

  If I am perceiving your tone wrong then my apologies. However, if my perception is correct then such is not productive at all.  Thanks.

Todd Arnett

On Thursday, May 9, 2019, 1:53:15 PM EDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Wouldn't it be great if the NWHS Sales List were active!? It was approved by the BOD at least 3 months ago; supposedly it is "in the works" per information at the Roanoke convention business meeting.

Jim Brewer

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 7:52 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

This engine doesn’t show up on ebay very often.  Reasonable opening bid.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norfolk-Western-K-2A-4-8-2-Mountain-Key-Samhongsa-Brass-HO-UP-BA206/382931677469?hash=item592881b11d:g:f4QAAOSwk1hcy0xf

There was an unpainted K-2a on ebay a couple days ago but I don’t see it now.  It was HEAVILY tarnished and would have required a LOT of work prior to painting.

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

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