EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Wed May 15 07:11:13 EDT 2019

 Thanks Jim. I will forward to the moderators so that they may have reference.
Todd Arnett

    On Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 3:08:07 PM EDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:  

 Here is the selling/buying guidelines for HO Swap on the groups.io:
Jim Brewer

Dear HO Modeler,

Welcome!  Congratulations on becoming our newest member of your new HOswap group.  I want to personally thank you for joining us!  

We are very happy that you have chosen to be a part of us, knowing full well that you could have gone to any other group.  So, again, thank you!  And welcome!

If you are interested in buying HO-Scale items,  books, movies, or other railroad-related media items, you will be happy to see the selection of great offerings that we receive each day.  Hopefully, you will see lots of things that appeal to you.  

If you are a seller or trader, then we are looking forward to seeing what you have to offer to us buyers.  I have no doubt that you will soon be doing business with our Eighteen-Hundred Plus active modelers and rail fans; all fine folks, indeed.  

If you are a buyer looking for a specific item, then please feel free to post a "Want To Buy" request.  And be sure to take advantage of our Wish List Wednesday where you can put out feelers for what's on your wish list.  You never know what folks have hiding in their train rooms.  Even if you are just a 'looker' who enjoys reading our postings, you are just as important to our group and will always find many interesting things in here.  

If you are a Retailer, then we also gladly welcome you, but trust that you will not abuse this group nor take advantage of its members.  Always offer some good deals to us.  Please do not just advertise yourself to us because that will be negatively interpreted as Spam by many.  If you are selling currently-available stock or are taking orders for pre-order items, then we only ask that you please offer these items at a price far better than most other retailers typically would.  After all, we are not charging you anything to sell your goods to us, as magazines and swap meets do.  Positive word-of-mouth will be your best friend in here. Therefore, here are the terms under which you are allowed to post:

1)  First, we understand that certain manufacturers and distributors place strict restrictions on how much you can discount certain items.  We also understand that you have expenses related to obtaining items for sale. Regardless, all items you sell in here must be discounted better than your standard retail or sale prices (we suggest 30% or greater) where possible.  In other words, prices have to be better than what any mail-order store or local hobby shop has.  If you can't do 30%, then at least please give us your best deal.  And I mean BEST deal.   If you don't do this, then Members are not likely to buy from you. 

2) Any shipping/handling charges have to be reasonable. They can not be increased to make up the difference of any discounts.  (That's cheating!)

3) These items are not required to be discounted (but we hope you will anyway): items that are out-of-production, discontinued, or hard-to-find or rare items.  Even so, your best price will be greatly appreciated. 

4) All postings must have specific items listed for sale with prices. You are not allowed to just advertise your business.  (Pictures, or links to pictures of for-sale item(s) ARE allowed, and encouraged.)  As an alternative in lieu of listing specific iterms, if you are having a store-wide sale or a promotional sale on a class of items, and are willing to give members of HOswap an additional discount, you may use a general announcement to that effect and include links to your sale pages. 

5) Any Web link to your business' home page or sale page(s) is not allowed unless it is part of your signature and the above conditions are met.  

Again, you are in here, free of charge.  You will find this a great place to conduct business.  

Lastly, to all of you, I offer this important word about your email delivery options.  This is a high-volume email group.  We typically broadcast over 400-500 emails each month.  Here are some options for you.  On your membership profile for this group, you have the option of using Daily Digest or Individual Emails for receiving our daily postings.  If you have concerns about receiving too many emails from us, then please select one of the two the Daily Digest option.  The Daily Digest is a very convenient way to manage a lot of emails by having them condensed and sent to you as one combined digest email.  Plus, you get a handy index of the postings at the top so that you can pick and choose which postings to read or bypass.  If you prefer to not have any email sent to your inbox such that you can read the postings from the group's Communications page (on the Yahoo web site), then please choose the Special Notices option.  "No Emails" is not allowed. 

Phew!  Thank you for reading through all of that!  If you have any questions about anything, please feel free to contact me about those or any other concerns you may have.  I am always happy to hear from our members and I always will try to personally and privately reply to every email I receive the minute I get it.  That's another thing that makes this group unique.  You are not just another member.  You will always have access to your group's Owner.  

Thanks again for joining us.  We are very happy to have you with us!  We know you will be glad you came.  

Best wishes and happy trading!

Val Nelson, Owner

Last updated: 06/21/18

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:07 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

 Amen to Jim King's post.
Jim Nichols
    On Tuesday, May 14, 2019, 7:19:38 AM CDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:  

 I agree with Mr. King wholeheartedly. Let's not make this overly complicated. I suggest it be setup similar to the HOSwap online group. Here is a link to their site:
https://groups.io/g/HOswap.

The paperwork suggested would be more than I or I would assume most others would wish to handle.
An auction style process would also make things far more complicated. 
If selling, name a price, discuss available shipping and then it's first come first serve. If looking to buy or announcing wish list requests, handle that case similarly .. make announcement and wait for replies. The replies and the final details of the sale in both cases should be handled offline.
Keep it simple.
... another two cents to consider.
Kevin ByrdChesterfield, VA   
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:36 AM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

This seems like a HUGE amount of effort to address a very simply idea.  Just list the items you want to sell and their respective prices.  First come, first serve.  Whoever replies to the seller OFF LIST as determined by the email time/date stamp gets it.  Personally, I won’t take the time to fill out a form for each item I want to sell.  I don’t do that on other lists and I’ve not seen anyone else do this.

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> 
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 3:17 PM
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Todd:

Assuming you are not considering an auction format (for which there are several 3rd party solutions that the Society could adopt, but I don’t recommend it), it seems to me that the “spade work” for the selling list should (by design) be as simple as possible.  That said, I think that most of us haven’t thought through the implications enough to understand how involved the minimum requirements might be, and how much work you are facing to stand this activity up.  I really appreciate your willingness to do this!

I suggest that we need a standard form to fill out that would prompt sellers to the useful information that should go in every listing.  I include one in .pdf form as an attachment, with the intent that it be cannon fodder for the List participants to improve on.  (It covers the things I wish every seller would include in their listings!)  Once the content of the form is agreed on, the Society could provide electronic forms that could be filled out on-line.  I would also like the Society to publish a standard “Rating Scale” for models, and have included a strawman set for comment in the attachment.

My sense that one hard part of this will be to figure out how to host and “serve” all the photographs that are required to properly depict a model for sale, and whether there should be a limit to the number or data storage size requirement imposed.  I do feel that most models can be adequately described in 8 or fewer photos, and if more are really required, a seller can provide contact information, and provide photos off-list to prospective buyers.  The simpler but less helpful approach would be for ALL photo exchange to be done off-list.

Another point worth considering is how long listings should persist, and what duration of archive for listings and photos would provide probative evidence if the sale results in any disagreement between seller and buyer.  Personally, I value ratings of trade outcomes and trading partners on forums like eBay and Amazon, and hope that the Society can create a means to collect and present persistent feedback.  Maybe the listings (absent photos, but with feedback from both parties) could be maintained accessible permanently.  This implies that sellers and buyers would be required to have persistent identities for all of their transactions, which in turn implies formal identity, log-in, and authentication management.  Ugh.

With regard to auction functionality, sellers can always approximate a Dutch auction format by issuing a first listing at a “high” price, and then lowering their asking at whatever rate makes sense until somebody buys the model.

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 06:24
To: NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: K-2/ Selling Lists

Mr. Huber,

 No intention to demean anyone, accept my apologies if the tone suggested such.  My point was that we had to prioritize our efforts and due to aforementioned circumstances, the convention was top priority.  The convention is our largest source of revenue even though only six percent +/- of the membership attend. If the convention goes wrong or is lacking, that six percent will strongly voice their opinions and could have negative effects regarding attendance at future conventions.

  I hope the selling lists prosper and yield good finds for folks. I have a surplus of items that I hope to put on the list, I just need to find the time.  Thanks.

Todd Arnett

On Saturday, May 11, 2019, 8:10:13 AM EDT, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

I don't wish to stir the pot but your comment that "the convention benefits the society and it's members.The lists, however, will only benefit a few and is also a free service " I find demeaning to many of us MEMBERS. 

We all would like to attend the conventions but many due to distance, age, finances and physical restrictions can not attend such events grudgingly. Not to take away from all the efforts of those working to make the convention interesting and a success. I appreciate their efforts and the burden of accomplishing the task. I also appreciate those who will be monitoring the sale list will have a busy and thankless job ahead of them.

There are probably a large portion of members who will check the lists and use those services as well but to be cast off as a bother is rude.Convention attendees or not we are all members and deserve some respect.

Just my 2¢.

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

On Friday, May 10, 2019, 12:35:33 PM CDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

Todd,

No snide intended; but based on your comments at the convention, it seemed that things had been "ready" for quite some time and just lingering. I look forward to the sales list being activated, as I'm sure many other members will as well. Thanks.

Jim

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:32 AM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Jim,

  Perhaps I am reading your commentary as snide but I am propelled to explain this matter so that everyone is aware of the trappings.

  Yes, the lists were approved quite some time ago.  However, the planning of the convention took priority as the convention benefits the society and it's members. The lists, however, will only benefit a few and is also a free service which we are glad to supply. Also remember that this convention was "dumped" on Ken, Frank and myself as the original chairman and co-chairman vacated their positions and left the society. We are proud to do the work but we also have other society matters to handle along with our home life and day jobs.

  If you recall, I stated to you in the business meeting that I would give the moderators the green light to proceed upon returning home for the convention. I did so on Tuesday and Dr. Greer has came through.  

  If I am perceiving your tone wrong then my apologies. However, if my perception is correct then such is not productive at all.  Thanks.

Todd Arnett

On Thursday, May 9, 2019, 1:53:15 PM EDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

Wouldn't it be great if the NWHS Sales List were active!? It was approved by the BOD at least 3 months ago; supposedly it is "in the works" per information at the Roanoke convention business meeting.

Jim Brewer

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 7:52 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

This engine doesn’t show up on ebay very often.  Reasonable opening bid.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norfolk-Western-K-2A-4-8-2-Mountain-Key-Samhongsa-Brass-HO-UP-BA206/382931677469?hash=item592881b11d:g:f4QAAOSwk1hcy0xf

There was an unpainted K-2a on ebay a couple days ago but I don’t see it now.  It was HEAVILY tarnished and would have required a LOT of work prior to painting.

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

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