Steam-era boxcar roof/end color Q

Mon Jul 6 17:27:53 EDT 2020

Brent,

I don't know but they may have been a Pullman proprietary underframe.  I
will see what I can find; I believe these cars were initially used on the
N&W in LCL service.

Jim Brewer

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 3:06 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

> The series is 53995-53999. The only information on the diagram is "sliding
> sill 10" rubber cushion."
>
> Jim Nichols
>
> On Monday, July 6, 2020, 06:02:53 AM CDT, NW Modeling List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> I am very interested in the 5 car lot identified in your data as PS Lot
> 8160D  for five cars with the cushioned underframes (N&W 53595 – 53599).
> What type of cushioned under frames were these?
>
> Brent
> ------------------------------
> *Dr. J. Brent Greer*
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> on behalf of
> NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2020 9:49 AM
> *To:* NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Steam-era boxcar roof/end color Q
>
>
> Andre,
>
> I contacted Ed Hawkins who is a freight car historian.  He was
> co-publisher of the *Railway Prototype Cyclopedia* series and has worked
> with many model manufacturers to bring accurate models to market.  Ed
> advises that he has reviewed and studied many of the Pullman-Standard
> contract files and has gained a working knowledge of how PS did things.
>
> The short answer to your original question is yes, the model you purchased
> is accurate.
>
> Perhaps for some, the longer answer may be of interest.  Ed advises that
> in developing the PS-1 boxcar the company developed not only the production
> line approach of assembly, but an entire Spec based on how the company
> dealt with the railroads.  Beginning with the first cars produced in 1949
> the company developed its own paint specifications.  The PS paint spec
> called for the car sides and doors to be painted the freight car color as
> selected by the railroad.  Black car cement was to be used on the
> underframe, roof and ends, and the trucks received black paint.  This was
> the Company’s standard and production was set up for the cars to be
> finished per this spec. Because of the assembly line process and use of
> standard materials PS was able to offer a lower price per car to the
> railroads.
>
> In 1950 PS received an order from N&W, which would become PS Lot 8002 (N&W
> 44000 – 44499).  N&W referred to its paint specifications, known as N&W
> Spec 900-D, and wanted the cars painted in accordance with it.  N&W’s
> specification required, among other things, brown sides, doors, ends and
> roof, and black underframe and trucks.  This conflicted with how PS did
> business and Ed reports there was a lot of correspondence between the
> companies.  PS used galvanized steel for the roof panels while the seam
> caps were forged steel.  PS explained that paint would not stick well to
> galvanized steel, even if a primer was used.  There was a suggestion that
> the primer might react with the galvanized steel which would result in
> earlier rusting.  PS explained that it used car cement on the roof and ends
> to better seal the rivets to prevent leakage into the car and onto the
> cargo.  Eventually N&W accepted the application of black car cement to the
> roof.  Ed indicated that each car received four to six gallons of paint for
> the freight car color, but forty-four gallons of black car cement.  The
> cost of paint was around $3.00 per gallon, while the black car cement cost
> just $0.32 per gallon.  PS preferred to use Mortell F-1 black car cement.
>
> Before the cars from PS Lot 8002 were completely delivered to N&W, the
> railroad placed a second order for additional cars.  This would be PS Lot
> 8035 (N&W 44500 – 44999).  These cars would follow the same specifications
> as Lot 8002; that is they received black car cement on the roofs but not
> the ends.
>
> In March 1952 N&W placed a third order with PS, which would become PS Lot
> 8100 (N&W 53000 – 53499).  Ed relates there was much correspondence between
> PS and N&W regarding the finish of these cars.  Apparently N&W had reverted
> back to its specification for an “all brown boxcar” and PS disagreed once
> again.  N&W Paint Spec 900-E was provided to PS and it had been revised to
> require the use of Mortex (another brand of car cement), or equivalent, on
> the roof and running boards. There was much correspondence between the
> companies over the use of primer before the application of the car cement.
> Several chemists concluded no primer was necessary for any brand of car
> cement.
>
> Before the cars from Lot 8100 went into production, N&W sent another paint
> spec revision, this one 900-G (no idea if there was ever a 900-F).  This
> spec still required the use of Mortex.  PS did not recommend Mortex because
> it was a water emulsion based product and would congeal in cold weather.
> Its preferred Mortell F-1 did not have this problem and could be applied in
> the coldest temperatures, as these cars were being built in its Michigan
> City plant.  However, N&W Spec 900-G now called for car cement to be
> applied to the underframe, roof and ends!  Ed notes that at this time N&W
> had also changed the stenciling of the road name and reporting marks from 7
> inches to 9 inches in height.
>
> In 1953 N&W would again place an order for more boxcars from PS.  At this
> time PS had built 100 cars to the PS-1 design, but with cushioned
> underframes.  PS Lot 8159 (N&W 53500 – 53994) was for cars with standard
> underframes, while PS Lot 8160D was for five cars with the cushioned
> underframes (N&W 53595 – 53599).  PS Lot 8159 had Superior doors instead of
> Youngstown, and the placards had been lowered in accordance with an AAR
> recommendation that took effect January 1954.  These cars would be exact
> duplicates of Lot 8100.
>
> In May 1955 N&W placed an order for an additional 450 cars which would be
> PS Lot 8261 (N&W 42000 – 42449).  These cars were built at the PS Bessemer
> plant in Alabama, whereas the prior cars had been built in Michigan City.
> The group of cars received Dednox 58-36 on the roof and underframes as it
> could be applied in the warmer temperatures of Alabama.  However, these
> cars had brown doors, sides and ends.
>
> I hope some of you found this information interesting. It would be
> interesting to study N&W Spec 900 and see what changes were made over the
> many revisions.
>
>
> Jim Brewer
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:10 AM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> The model ( I also have one) looks identical to the photo of 53499 on page
> 52 of the N&W Handbook, but you cannot see anything of the ends or roof in
> the photo.
>
> Dick Dunford
> Blacksburg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>; NW Modeling List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Cc: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Jun 30, 2020 12:34 pm
> Subject: Steam-era boxcar roof/end color Q
>
> Hello all,
> In a moment of weakness, I bought a Kadee HO scale 40’ boxcar that poses
> as an N&W B8, with a 1953 build date in the 53000-53499 number group.
> Unlike most all others I’ve seen, this one has a black roof and ends. Izzat
> prototypical? The microscopic lettering on the car side denotes “For Clean
> Freight Only” — dunno if that makes any difference.
> Thoughts, memories, etc., welcomed.
> Thanks much,
>
> Andre Jackson
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
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