EXTERNAL: Re:

[NW Modeling List]

Frank, Jim:

Some explanatory photos…

The “VGN AE DRIVE SHAFT” photo unfortunately shows the forward drive shaft dislocated from its spline, so don’t look at it for driveline clues.  However, it does show the sliding bearing between the boiler and the forward engine.  It also shows the BL, and the fabricated exhaust steam line (the copper tube) heading forward to a fabricated fitting soldered to the smokebox side wall.

The “VGN AE 02” photo shows the driveline intact, with the correct orientation of the forward gearbox and shaft.  You can see that the Hi-Lo gearbox set (with the aft gearbox on the forward drive axle of the aft engine, provides a very favorable driveline angle to nestle a big motor in the firebox area.  I think we ended up with a 22x32 Faulhaber.

The two other photos are of the Jawn Henry driveline work.  In “JH-3”, you can see that the Atlas Train Master trucks are attached to the Alco Models bolster, although the tower openings in the bolsters and frame had to be milled out a bit.  The Atlas trucks are incorporated entirely and without modification, except the Atlas worms had to be pulled and then pressed onto new shafting on the “inboard” trucks.  The Boo Rim spline/universal sets are expensive, but the fitment worked out really well in all 4 places, and they seem to be smoother than NWSL dogbone universals.  Good (i.e., long) spline engagement is important in this application.

Jan milled out the center of the floor a bit to drop the centerline of the 23x42mm motor.  The Faulhaber motor has a bigger “front” shaft diameter than rear diameter, so spec your universals accordingly.  The “JH-4” photo shows some of the replacement worm shafting.

Of course, orientation of the trucks is key to a good representation, so pay attention to that before laying out the holes for the bolsters and floor openings!

Finally, you can infer that there is ALL kinds of room for weight in the resulting model, although you have to account for the swing of the gear towers and shafts.

I bought these huge Faulhaber motors from:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Faulhaber-2342-12v-DC-motor-Perfect-for-brass-HO-S-O-scale-locomotives/233368489507?hash=item3655d88e23:g:UIgAAOSwNaBdo4d0.  He also offers nice 3-motor discounts.  You will have to remove the aluminum sleeve/heat fin piece with a small arbor press (not too arduous), and the aft-end gear (I Dremeled slots in the gear teeth to give my puller a place to latch onto.)  These motors are incredibly robust, and I suspect you could weight this model up to 3 – 4 pounds and still not stall the motor.  With AWD and the smooth/efficient Atlas trucks, I suspect it will pull or push a prototypical number of hoppers and gons!

-Eric Bott



From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 10:04
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re:

Eric, please consider posting that complete explanation to the Virginian IO Group.  A good number of people have AE's that they'd like to get running decently.  Thanks.

Frank Bongiovanni

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 9:49 AM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Frank, Jim, Jim:

Thank you for your kind words.  I was just the visionary on these models; Jan Willard and Matt Callahan have been the artisans.

I started out by sending the model to NWSL for driveline remediation about 8 years ago.  A guy named Derrell Poole (who also owns 7th Street Shops) worked on it, putting in the NWSL Hi=Lo gearbox arrangement and an NWSL motor.  This was intended to get all the gearbox and motor shafts into a single line, and did accomplish that objective.  Ho more driveline kink mediated by a flexible coupling.  He also put in softer springs as well.  When I got the model back, the front of the boiler (which NJCB just cantilevered off the back engine) drooped down onto the front engine, because of the softer springs on the front axles of the back engine.  The NWSL motor wasn’t anything to write home about either.  The model was essentially useless, after having spent a lot of money on the mods.

I knew that I needed to transfer a good portion of the boiler weight to the front engine (that would fix the drooping problem and improve traction).  At first I was afraid to do this without providing any vertical compliance, so I researched pogo pins to find one (or even a pair) that would fit into the boiler diameter while transferring a nominal 1 pound or so of weight.  I could not find any that robust.

Howard Zane recommended Jan to me for a different project, but at some point Jan and I started talking about the AE.  We discussed the driveline, and I also indicated that I’d love a model of 806.  Jan said that he’d like to take a look at it, and he had elegantly solved a different problem for me on another model.  My objectives to Jan were:  “Find a good way of eliminating the boiler droop and apply weight to the front engine, and make it run well.  Accomplish the 806 mods if you feel like you can do them.”  Jan asked whether my layout had smooth vertical transitions between grades.  I don’t have a layout yet, but we then talked about the vertical compliance of each axle due to the springs, and we reasoned that if I paid good attention to those vertical transitions in laying trackwork, the axle springs should be sufficient.  We’ll see about that in time, but I agreed to making the sliding bearing between the front of the boiler and the front engine without vertical compliance.  I sourced a large boiler cradle casting from PSC, and Jan fabbed the rest of the necessary parts from scratch, working diligently to establish the correct distance between boiler and frame.  Because of the non-compliance in the vertical direction, I can now put as much weight in the boiler as will fit (I calculate that to be nearly 2 lbs of eutectic low melting point alloy).  He also completely re-worked the NWSL gearboxes (Boy, do I wish I had gone with Boo Rim gearboxes from the start—the current NWSLs are not much to write home about any more!), shimmed them between the frame rails, and then told me that the NWSL motor wasn’t good enough either.  We decided on the biggest Faulhaber he could fit.  Wow, what a difference that swap made!  I’ve learned over the years, and many remotorings, that Faulhaber, Escap, and Maxon A-Max motors are just better than anything else I’ve used or specified, and by now I probably have 35-40 models with one or the other of these extremely fine motors.

I don’t think we took any photos of the driveline before the model went to Matt for paint, sorry.  If I ever take the model apart, I’ll send photos.

However, I then tasked Jan to completely re-do the driveline on an Alco Models Jawn Henry.  My spec to him was “Make this model capable of taking 36” radius curves, #6 switches, and make it quiet.”  He has completed that effort, and he took pics throughout that process.  I gave Jan the model, and 4 Atlas Train Master drive trucks, with worm gears and shafts, and a huge 23x42 dual-shaft Faulhaber motor.  Jan figured out how to attach the trucks, mount the motor, re-shaft the worms, fit PSC (Boo Rim) spline/universals into the model, and change out the cab steps to allow enough swing.  36” and #6 are at the absolute limit of capability; the model really prefers 37”+ radius (which will work fine for me, as I’m planning minimum 44” and #8 on my main lines), and the model is now both quiet and smooth as silk.  I’d put it up against the DP model for running qualities, and bet that I could pull two of them in a tug of war--Jan says it will pull up the rails.  It gets shipped to me later this week, and then I will complete the decal work for my model and a friend’s.  Then into the paint queue (which admittedly is now well over a year, even for a model this important to my collection, even considering that I currently work with 4 very fine painters.)  I will post some interim photos of the driveline work within a week.

FWIW, Jan has remotored nearly 20 of my models at this point, and we always go for adding a backhead when that’s possible.  He installed an A-Max motor, Boo Rim gearbox, and backhead into an NWSL E-2a, which makes that model about 1000% better in appearance and running qualities, and a now valued member of my collection.  To give you some idea of what Jan is capable of, he added a motor and backhead to a Westside PRR G-5 4-6-0, which required that he move the gearbox to the front driver axle (from its original middle driver axle position), rebuild the cross-frame stays, and modify the valve gear hanger, to allow the motor to be mounted far enough forward to allow inclusion of the backhead in its proper place.  That’s another model that has gone from an embarrassment to a valued member of my collection.  I cancelled my order for DP’s G-5, which Jack “announced” over 6 years ago and is still not in production, without any regret.  Jan has also done several cosmetic mod projects for me.  I made the parts, and Jan assembled them, to convert a Key Rutland G-34 into the streamstyled #28, “The Whippet”.  I just had to do this project, because where else in the world than New England would there have been a streamstyled, low-drivered Consolidation—with slant cylinders, no less?  Paint on The Whippet will get done this year.  The E-2a maybe next year.

Finally, the attached eye candy was executed by Gwynne Burch.  It started as a Sunset USRA heavy 2-10-2 (Samhongsa, nice model) and a Balboa UP Vanderbilt tender.  The goal was to accurately represent an ACL Q-1, of which (unsurprisingly) no model was ever produced.  The most significant mods were to the tender, to represent what I’d nominate as the ugliest tender ever delivered with a US steam locomotive; the air pumps were also doubled up and the Fireman’s running boards modded accordingly.  And then, given the magnificent work Gwynne did on the mods, I just had to have it done in its delivery paint scheme, which Gwynne also did, using my decals.  (Note the unpainted rod knuckles.)

Damn, I love this hobby!

Best,

-Eric Bott


From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org>> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 06:40
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re:

Great modeling; good work Eric; thanks for sharing.

Jim Brewer

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 6:26 AM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Eric; incredibly nice. Fine work.  Uh, pictures of the AE Drive as modified?  Over the years there has been much discussion, especially on the Virginian list, of that really subpar drive in what was, at that time, an expensive locomotive.

Frank Bongiovanni

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 8:21 PM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Some past and present projects.

VGN #806 was, of course, the only AE to have been modified.  No model was imported of this configuration, which makes it a fun target for modification of the NJCB model (which had a truly wretched factory driveline implementation.)  New Hi-Lo gearboxes, a Faulhaber motor, and addition of a sliding bearing between the forward part of the boiler and the front engine, moving the air pumps to “flying pump” configuration, scratchbuilding a new smokebox front, trimming the front running boards, and installing a Worthington BL FWH and associated plumbing where the air pumps used to be, were done by Jan Willard.  Outstanding paint by Matt Callahan.  The decals are mine.

The MBs only required minor modification—filling in the pilot step hangers with sheet metal, to accept the later striping applied to MBs.  Matt did these mods, and threw the paint.  My decals here, too.

Matt also did the DCC/Sound/Current Keeper installations on the 3 models.

Best,

-Eric Bott
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