[game_preservation] game_preservation Digest, Vol 38, Issue 11

[Stephen Webley]

game_preservation-request at igda.org wrote:

> Send game_preservation mailing list submissions to

> 	game_preservation at igda.org

>

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

> 	http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

> 	game_preservation-request at igda.org

>

> You can reach the person managing the list at

> 	game_preservation-owner at igda.org

>

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> than "Re: Contents of game_preservation digest..."

>

>

> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. Re: A Life Well Wasted (Henry Lowood)

>    2. Re: A Life Well Wasted (Andrew Armstrong)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:31:56 -0700

> From: Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu>

> Subject: Re: [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

> To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG <game_preservation at igda.org>

> Message-ID: <49B695FC.4000704 at stanford.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

>

> Andrew,

>

> A propos Tabula Rasa, we are in touch with the guys who documented the 

> last moments and have permission to add their video to the collection. 

> So yes, we got it.

>

> Henry

>

> Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>   

>> I'd like to agree with Henry here on all counts. Videos are not 

>> equivalent (nothing is except for a time machine), but I think 

>> historians will prefer that to any re-enactments - as stated, while 

>> Civil War guys might march around with full kit, but historians would 

>> kill to have a video of the lives of those soldiers (or anyone else at 

>> that time in history!).

>>

>> If we start saying it's "Not good enough" in any way we just need to 

>> go back 100 years and see how little was filmed, and think how much we 

>> miss in history because of it (and how much actual film, audio and 

>> other culture has been lost permanently). It's easy to wave a hand if 

>> it's all you know, but certainly I'd welcome much much more to the 

>> IA's collections. I hope Henry got some good stuff of Tabular Rasa 

>> closing for instance! Once in a games lifetime experience that, not 

>> something that can ever be remade.

>>

>> On singleplayer: Let's Play's are awesome ;) Need to check and see if 

>> any are being made of MMO's, there are a odd few around - gets the 

>> experience with commentary, which is ace :) - footage is good, footage 

>> with commentary (optional is best) is even better, which I intend to 

>> try at some point.

>>

>> Reminded me to listen to these - I've added them to my MP3 player now, 

>> I don't know why I forgot before.

>>

>> Andrew

>>

>> Henry Lowood wrote:

>>     

>>> Hi Stuart,

>>>

>>> Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay 

>>> documentation (which is not just video).   My point was that 

>>> documenting a complex multi-player or massively multi-player world is 

>>> as much about documenting events that happen in those spaces as it is 

>>> about preserving software.  I don't think that's marginal at all.

>>>

>>> If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That sort of 

>>> preservation is closer to re-enactment than history, however.  Ok, 

>>> yes, it is possible that groups will get together to play Everquest 

>>> in 100 years, just like they camp out in Civil War replica uniforms 

>>> and fire muskets in line.  But that experience is NOT the experience 

>>> of what happens in virtual worlds today, i.e., it is not going to be 

>>> history.  It is still going to take place 100 years from now, no 

>>> matter how you cut it.  For similar reasons, I disagree strongly that 

>>> playing with bots is going to be informative, at least in terms of 

>>> historical work.

>>>

>>> In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software 

>>> preservation and "event" preservation (for want of a better term).   

>>> My emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more of a 

>>> corrective to the idea that it's all about software preservation than 

>>> it is an attempt to say we should only do video capture and gather 

>>> documentation.  But if you put a gun to my head and say pick one or 

>>> the other, software or documentation, you can't have both, as a 

>>> historian I would go for documentation.

>>>

>>> Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful; I 

>>> certainly agree with that statement. 

>>>

>>> Henry

>>>

>>> Stuart Feldhamer wrote:

>>>       

>>>> I just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well 

>>>> done, although I think they would both have been improved by video 

>>>> -- especially the one on collectors. You can't begin to understand 

>>>> collectors until you actually SEE some of their collections.

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> Henry, you made a comment in the podcast that a single player game 

>>>> can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a multi-player game 

>>>> can't be, because it requires other people to play, and the guy 

>>>> won't be able to find other people to play it with him. Regardless 

>>>> if that is true or not, it's impossible to preserve the actual 

>>>> experience of playing the game by taking video and screenshots. The 

>>>> only way the guy in 100 years is going to be able to have the 

>>>> experience of playing the game is if he manages to get a whole bunch 

>>>> of other people to play with him, or if we can design suitably 

>>>> convincing bots to take the place of the other players.

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> I agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to 

>>>> gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically added 

>>>> to the mix by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player games? It 

>>>> sounded from the podcast as if this was some kind of solution to the 

>>>> problem of preserving multi-player games in general. I think it's 

>>>> useful, but it only adds marginally to the preservation of the game 

>>>> experience.

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> Stuart

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org 

>>>> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Henry Lowood

>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM

>>>> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG

>>>> *Subject:* [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> Some of you may be interested in the far-flung corners of the world 

>>>> that the Preserving Virtual Worlds project has reached.  Others I 

>>>> know are intensely interested in the world of game collectors.  In 

>>>> either case, check out Robert Ashley's new podcast, A Life Well Wasted:

>>>> http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/

>>>> The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I have 

>>>> to say is not so different in some ways from book collectors (said 

>>>> from a library perspective). The last quarter or so is about our 

>>>> project. Robert Ashley, the man behind ALWW, has said on forums he 

>>>> might release the interview with me in its entirety.  He is a bright 

>>>> guy and a great interviewer -- makes you wonder about all the talent 

>>>> shaking loose from 1Up.

>>>> Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history and 

>>>> demise of EGM.

>>>> Henry

>>>>

>>>> -- 

>>>>

>>>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>>>

>>>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>>>

>>>>  Film & Media Collections

>>>>

>>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>>>

>>>> Stanford University Libraries

>>>>

>>>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>>>

>>>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>; 

>>>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>>>

>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>   

>>>>         

>>> -- 

>>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>>  Film & Media Collections

>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>> Stanford University Libraries

>>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 

>>> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>   

>>>       

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_preservation mailing list

>> game_preservation at igda.org

>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>   

>>     

> Hi Guys, I would be very interested in seeing the Tabula Rasa  videos. I  presented a paper last year (last May if I remember correctly)on the

> Historiographical and social significance of participating in MMORPGs   where I predicted the demise of Tabula Rasa. I did so on the grounds that combat and conflict within the game did not portray war as true extension of mans' asocial sociability. It is one of the very rare occasions when I have got things right for a change. The paper is currently off being edited by a colleague - would the SIG be interested in a copy?

> Steve Webley