[game_preservation] Fwd: FW: [socialissuegames] Serious games repository or reference list?

[Andrew Armstrong]

Interesting, see how they go with it since you're there already :) 
Different groups do this already (indie scene, art scene both have a few 
lists or websites for themselves), I'm glad to see the educational and 
more serious side take some form.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:

> Hi folks,

>

> I believe this discussion is significant for everyone on this list - 

> after all, it deals with cataloguing and archival! An archive focusing 

> on serious games would be fantastic.

>

> -Devin

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> From: *Marc Prensky* <marc at games2train.com <mailto:marc at games2train.com>>

> Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:46 PM

> Subject: FW: [socialissuegames] Serious games repository or reference 

> list?

> To: Discussion of games addressing social issues 

> <socialissuegames at listserver.dmill.com 

> <mailto:socialissuegames at listserver.dmill.com>>

>

>

> Hi all. 

>

>  

>

> Given the interest, I have decided to bring my list back to life, 

> revising and updating it both going forward into the present (and 

> future, if games are in development), and backward (I had once made a 

> list of 500 historical serious games.)

>

>  

>

> In order to make this possible, I'd appreciate your sharing any lists 

> you have.  I will, as quickly as possible try to get them into one 

> easily accessible and searchable (and updated) place, open (without 

> enrollment) to all.

>

>  

>

> You can send things to marc at games2train.com 

> <mailto:marc at games2train.com>.   Any suggestions for making the 

> www.socialimpactgames.com <http://www.socialimpactgames.com>  site 

> better or easier to use are welcome as well.

>

>  

>

> Many thanks.

>

>  

>

> Best,

>

> Marc

>

>  

>

>  

>

> *From:* moses.wolfenstein at gmail.com 

> <mailto:moses.wolfenstein at gmail.com> 

> [mailto:moses.wolfenstein at gmail.com 

> <mailto:moses.wolfenstein at gmail.com>] *On Behalf Of *Moses Wolfenstein

> *Sent:* Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:31 PM

> *To:* Discussion of games addressing social issues

> *Subject:* Re: [socialissuegames] Serious games repository or 

> reference list?

>

>  

>

> First off, to those of you who have pointed me towards some of the 

> existing resources, you have my heartfelt thanks. The gamesforchange 

> database is an awesome starter (one I really should have checked 

> before asking the list) and it looks like Marc Prensky's list, while 

> it seems to be less current, also covers a lot of ground.

>

> At the same time, Brian makes a really good point here. I actually 

> didn't mean to suggest that there was an actual genre of "Serious 

> games" with this question, rather there are clearly numerous game 

> genres (or variants of genres) which can be considered under an 

> umbrella category of "serious" based on the intention of the 

> designers. In fact, the topic of game genres is actually an extremely 

> sticky one even without this serious question, but I'd like to just 

> ignore that for now. If anyone really wants to unwrap the Pandora's 

> box of genre, start a new thread and I'll be happy to weigh in with my 2¢

>

> The point I'm getting at is that while Civ (and more recently WoW for 

> that matter) have certainly been utilized as tools for learning, the 

> primary aim of the designers was to make a game that was fun. As a 

> result the fine folks at companies like Firaxis and 

> Blizzard/Activision are operating under a fundamentally different 

> rubric for game design because they're not directly concerned with 

> learning. Now that learning objective might be for 

> training,consciousness raising, or even meeting instructional 

> standards, but designing games for any learning objective becomes a 

> fundamentally different task than designing a game strictly so that it 

> will meet success in the commercial market . . . and yes, there are 

> the Peter Molyneux's and the Jonathon Blow's of the commercial games 

> industry who are also making art (yet another sticky topic), but as 

> long as they work within the commercial

> games industry there's a bottom line which is not tied to whether or 

> not the audience is learning.

>

> Is it actually correct to use the term Serious games to denote a 

> category in a manner that excludes commercial games (let alone mods of 

> commercial games) that can be utilized effectively for learning? 

> That's not a question I really have an answer for. After all, my 

> current dissertation work is looking at guild leadership in WoW, so 

> clearly I don't draw a hard and fast line in that respect, However, as 

> a designer I needed some way of throwing this question out to the list 

> in a manner that would turn up some resources for the sort of games 

> we're looking for here in this current project at UW to understand 

> what has and hasn't worked in the development of games that have a 

> primary aim of representing concepts for the player in a meaningful 

> way as we consider making new games of this sort. That is, we are 

> looking at how other folks have answered questions like which 

> commercial genres seem to be amenable for different topics, and how 

> have these sorts of attempts succeeded or failed previously?

>

> At any rate, I welcome further conversation on the topic, and if 

> someone hasn't weighed in yet with a list or database that covers 

> ground that hasn't otherwise been covered, I know that I'm not the 

> only one on this list who would be happy to hear about it ; )

>

> Thanks again,

> -moses

>

>

> -- 

> Moses Wolfenstein

> Doctoral Candidate

> University of Wisconsin, Madison

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>

> -- 

> Devin Monnens

> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>

>

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

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