[LEAPSECS] The definition of a day

Athena Madeleina athenamadeleina at gmail.com
Fri Jan 30 15:01:49 EST 2015

>From the point of view of conflict resolution, there is a difference
between disagreeing with someone about what is important or what is
valid, and not acknowledging that his argument even exists.

Several recent emails by those who want to end leap seconds are saying
that sometimes the other side just ignores their arguments as if they
had never been made, and that various resolutions are greatly

There is a presentation on the USNO web pages that says it has
referenced every argument made by those who want to keep leap seconds.
Do people who want to keep leap seconds claim that this presentation
and others like it have not even acknowledged the very existence of
their concerns?  This is different from saying that their opinions are
disagreed with, considered not important, or even ridiculed.

On 1/30/15, Ian Batten via LEAPSECS <leapsecs at leapsecond.com> wrote:
>> On 30 Jan 2015, at 10:34, Hal Murray <hmurray at megapathdsl.net> wrote:
>>> So, let us suppose the year 2600 is when the drift reaches the annoying
>>> point, and let us suppose the EU is still in existence. By then the sun
>>> will
>>> reach its highest point at about 12:45 UTC. So at this point the EU
>>> announces (a few years ahead) that the normal autumn shift back of the
>>> clocks will not happen. ...
>>> Dealing with local time changes as you cross borders is something people
>>> are
>>> used to, as is the fact that the amount of change varies both within the
>>> year and from year to year. So there's nothing new for people to get
>>> used
>>> to.
>> It's not as simple as just skip an hour shift.
>> I'm in the US.  We are used to dealing with hour shifts in the
>> spring/fall.
>> But the system has had years to get used to that.  If you skip one, then
>> all
>> sorts of things need to get adjusted.  I'm thinking of things like schools
>> starting in daylight so there are fewer traffic accidents.  It doesn't
>> matter
>> if they start at 8AM or 9AM or 7AM, but if they have been starting at 8AM
>> and
>> you adjust the clocks by an hour you need to adjust the starting time by
>> an
>> hour to get back to where you want to be.
> Firstly, the research says if you only have enough daylight such that you
> have
> to choose, in fact starting schools in the dark produces fewer traffic
> accidents,
> because going home in the dark (when drivers are tired) is a higher risk
> than
> going to school in the dark (when they are less tired).  The experiment is
> the
> UK 1968 to 1971, when we abandoned the shift and stayed on GMT+1 all year
> around.
> I'm old enough to remember it, just, Clive being a few years older than me
> is
> probably a better witness.
> Secondly, the UK have turned daylight savings on and off on multiple
> occasions in
> varying ways: the transition to and from the aforementioned British
> Standard
> Time, the transition in 1940 and 1945 into and out of GMT+1/GMT+2 that
> persisted
> through the second world war, the temporary re-introduction of double summer
> time in 1947.
> We dealt with it.  The problem with all the "these problems are
> insurmountable"
> arguments is that they manifestly are surmountable.  We've done it.  Several
> times.
> Often with bombs falling at the same time.
> ian
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