From gerald.bauer at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 05:16:20 2015
From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:16:20 +0200
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
Message-ID: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

  I've started a quick reference that lists all HTML tag with Markdown
"short codes" [1]. The tags include:

HTML                            | Notes
------------------------------- | ---------------------
<h1>...</h1> - <h6>...</h6>     | Heading 1-6
<p>...</p>                      | Paragraph
<br>                            | Hard Line Break
<i>...</i>                      | Italic Text (Emphasis)
<b>...</b>                      | Bold Text (Strong Emphasis)
<code>...</code>                | Code (Monospace Text)
<del>...</del>                  | Deleted (Strikethrough) Text
<ul>(<li>...</li>)+</ul>        | Unordered List
<ol>(<li>...</li>)+</ol>        | Ordered (Numbered) List
<a href="...">...</a>           | Link
<img src="..." alt="...">                   | Image (with Alternative Text)
<table>(<tr>(<td>...</td>)+</tr>)+</table>  | Table
<pre><code>...</code></pre>                 | Preformatted Code Block
<blockquote>...<blockquote>                 | Blockquote
<hr>                            | Horizontal Rule
<!-- ... -->                    | Comments


  Any tags missing? Let us know. Cheers

[1] https://github.com/writekit/quickrefs/blob/master/HTML.md

From michel.fortin at michelf.ca  Tue Aug  4 07:28:02 2015
From: michel.fortin at michelf.ca (Michel Fortin)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 07:28:02 -0400
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F42E3FD-BCB0-46F8-A9BC-2AD4391285D2@michelf.ca>

Le 2015-08-04 ? 5:16, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer at gmail.com> a ?crit :

> Any tags missing? Let us know. Cheers

Which variant of Markdown are you targeting? Many of those are not available in the reference implementation of Markdown (the one on Daring Fireball). While if you use Markdown Extra you have footnotes, definition lists, and abbreviations which are not on your list. MultiMarkdown also has a syntax for <del>, <ins>, and <mark>, glossary entries, citations, and maths.

There is a wide variation of what is available depending on the parser you use. Also, not all features map cleanly to an HTML tag (footnotes for instance).

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin at michelf.ca
https://michelf.ca

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From gerald.bauer at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 07:59:45 2015
From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 13:59:45 +0200
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <7F42E3FD-BCB0-46F8-A9BC-2AD4391285D2@michelf.ca>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <7F42E3FD-BCB0-46F8-A9BC-2AD4391285D2@michelf.ca>
Message-ID: <CAAxEZd9y2wabOUGwX_2dMgJwNhi53OSpBVGagP0t32-MemV+=w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
  Thanks for your comments and the great Markdown Extra library. Will
try to add the <ins> and <mark> tags and footnotes, glossary entries,
citations and definition lists. The more the better.

  I "target" if I dare to say "common" Markdown - or let's say
"Webster's" Markdown e.g. it works like an English dictionary - I
collect all variants (British English, American, Newfie, etc.) in use.

  Cheers.

From waylan.limberg at icloud.com  Tue Aug  4 08:13:42 2015
From: waylan.limberg at icloud.com (Waylan Limberg)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 08:13:42 -0400
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>

It is vary unusual for Markdown parsers to return <b> and <i> tags. Usually, <strong> and <emphasis> are used instead. See Babelmark for an example: 

http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/?normalize=1&text=*italic*+%26+**bold**

Also, most older implementations return XHTML Tags like <br /> and <hr /> rather than there HTML counterparts. In the age of HTML5, this doesn't really matter much (for most users), but back when they were first created it was important to having valid XHTLM (the new hotness of the time). Of note is the fact that <b> and <i> are not valid XHTML tags (IIRC). Thus the use of <strong> and <emphasis>.

Waylan Limberg

> On Aug 4, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>  I've started a quick reference that lists all HTML tag with Markdown
> "short codes" [1]. The tags include:
> 
> HTML                            | Notes
> ------------------------------- | ---------------------
> <h1>...</h1> - <h6>...</h6>     | Heading 1-6
> <p>...</p>                      | Paragraph
> <br>                            | Hard Line Break
> <i>...</i>                      | Italic Text (Emphasis)
> <b>...</b>                      | Bold Text (Strong Emphasis)
> <code>...</code>                | Code (Monospace Text)
> <del>...</del>                  | Deleted (Strikethrough) Text
> <ul>(<li>...</li>)+</ul>        | Unordered List
> <ol>(<li>...</li>)+</ol>        | Ordered (Numbered) List
> <a href="...">...</a>           | Link
> <img src="..." alt="...">                   | Image (with Alternative Text)
> <table>(<tr>(<td>...</td>)+</tr>)+</table>  | Table
> <pre><code>...</code></pre>                 | Preformatted Code Block
> <blockquote>...<blockquote>                 | Blockquote
> <hr>                            | Horizontal Rule
> <!-- ... -->                    | Comments
> 
> 
>  Any tags missing? Let us know. Cheers
> 
> [1] https://github.com/writekit/quickrefs/blob/master/HTML.md
> _______________________________________________
> Markdown-Discuss mailing list
> Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss

From gerald.bauer at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 10:26:02 2015
From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 16:26:02 +0200
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

   Thanks great comments. I've update the quick reference and it reads now

   <i> or <emphasis>    and
   <b> or <strong>

   Thanks for the comments on XHTML - might add a footnote or
something.  The idea (target audience) of the reference is a HTML
coders new to Markdown (thus, <i> before <emphasis> e.g. less typing
etc. same for <br> and <br /> etc.)

   By the way, the quick reference is decidated to the public doman
(e.g. no copyright, no rights reserved) - (re)use and copy as you
please.  Note: I will try to put a static site together later this
week (using the same page, thanks to GitHub pages with built in
Markdown processing ;-)

  Cheers.

From michel.fortin at michelf.ca  Tue Aug  4 10:48:12 2015
From: michel.fortin at michelf.ca (Michel Fortin)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 10:48:12 -0400
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3665373E-D579-4AD4-98FA-95D99869E958@michelf.ca>

Le 2015-08-04 ? 10:26, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer at gmail.com> a ?crit :

>   Thanks great comments. I've update the quick reference and it reads now
> 
>   <i> or <emphasis>    and
>   <b> or <strong>

Shouldn't it be <em>? There's no such thing as <emphasis> in HTML.

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin at michelf.ca
https://michelf.ca

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From waylan.limberg at icloud.com  Tue Aug  4 12:40:40 2015
From: waylan.limberg at icloud.com (Waylan Limberg)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 12:40:40 -0400
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <3665373E-D579-4AD4-98FA-95D99869E958@michelf.ca>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
 <3665373E-D579-4AD4-98FA-95D99869E958@michelf.ca>
Message-ID: <13BB7519-05D8-46BE-AF9E-16BF005A09E1@icloud.com>


> On Aug 4, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Michel Fortin <michel.fortin at michelf.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Le 2015-08-04 ? 10:26, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer at gmail.com> a ?crit :
>> 
>>  Thanks great comments. I've update the quick reference and it reads now
>> 
>>  <i> or <emphasis>    and
>>  <b> or <strong>
> 
> Shouldn't it be <em>? There's no such thing as <emphasis> in HTML.

You are correct. Sorry, my mistake.

Waylan Limberg 

From bowerbird at aol.com  Tue Aug  4 13:46:02 2015
From: bowerbird at aol.com (bowerbird)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 13:46:02 -0400
Subject: crowd-sourcing for a new javascript browser-based prose editor
Message-ID: <14ef9d1f1ec-353c-32f1c@webprd-m54.mail.aol.com>

marijn haverbeke said:
>   Sometimes I lie awake at night, 
>   feverishly searching for new ways to 
>   load myself down with more 
>   poorly-paying responsibilities. 
>   And then it comes to me: I should 
>   start another open-source project!
>
>   http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/blog/prosemirror.html

crowd-sourcing for a browser-based rich-text editor
based on markdown and/or commonmark, whatever.

one of marjin's earlier projects created _codemirror_,
which is targeted at code. and he now attacks prose.
he also wrote "eloquent javascript", so he might be
one of the best people to write this javascript code.

more:
>   http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/blog/collaborative-editing.html
>   http://prosemirror.net

-bowerbird


From gerald.bauer at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 03:13:20 2015
From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 09:13:20 +0200
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <13BB7519-05D8-46BE-AF9E-16BF005A09E1@icloud.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
 <3665373E-D579-4AD4-98FA-95D99869E958@michelf.ca>
 <13BB7519-05D8-46BE-AF9E-16BF005A09E1@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAAxEZd_uSJ2yDv=dKZ5TjgBFQ=Asio0L-uMxBbeN_1aJqAiu+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
   Thanks. Sorry my mistake.

> Shouldn't it be <em>? There's no such thing as <emphasis> in HTML.

   It's now corrected to <em>. Cheers.

From tom at jumpingrock.net  Wed Aug  5 10:06:27 2015
From: tom at jumpingrock.net (Tom Humiston)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:06:27 -0400
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07C68DC5-1EDB-46B9-9171-5015FA213D51@jumpingrock.net>

On Aug 4, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> thus, <i> before <em> e.g. less typing

They're not equivalent ? there's far more difference than the amount of typing, and they ought not be considered interchangeable. _When used as intended, the em and strong units are almost always preferable over the i and b elements._

Fortunately, in most cases the elements produced by Markdown syntax are the appropriate ones; <i> and <b> can be specified explicitly in the rare cases where they're suitable.

From the spec:

> The [em element][1] represents stress emphasis of its contents.


> The [strong element][2] represents strong importance, seriousness, or urgency for its contents.


> The [i element][3] represents a span of text in an alternate voice or mood, or otherwise offset from the normal prose in a manner indicating a different quality of text, such as a taxonomic designation, a technical term, an idiomatic phrase from another language, transliteration, a thought, or a ship name in Western texts.


> The [b element][4] represents a span of text to which attention is being drawn for utilitarian purposes without conveying any extra importance and with no implication of an alternate voice or mood, such as key words in a document abstract, product names in a review, actionable words in interactive text-driven software, or an article lede.


In addition to those definitions, the spec has concise guidance on when, how, and why to use each element, as well as code examples of each.

In short, Gerald, in the guide you're preparing I wouldn't mention <i> and <b> in connection with Markdown's *em* and **strong** syntax, because they're really for something else.

HTH,
Thomas

 [1]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/semantics.html#the-em-element

 [2]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/semantics.html#the-strong-element

 [3]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/semantics.html#the-i-element

 [4]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/semantics.html#the-b-element

From j.p.davies at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Aug  5 10:32:59 2015
From: j.p.davies at ucl.ac.uk (Jason Davies)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 15:32:59 +0100
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <07C68DC5-1EDB-46B9-9171-5015FA213D51@jumpingrock.net>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
 <07C68DC5-1EDB-46B9-9171-5015FA213D51@jumpingrock.net>
Message-ID: <E0A2A312-6465-4CC2-80F6-276A1FD764D4@ucl.ac.uk>

On 5 Aug 2015, at 15:06, Tom Humiston wrote:

> In short, Gerald, in the guide you're preparing I wouldn't mention <i> 
> and <b> in connection with Markdown's *em* and **strong** syntax, 
> because they're really for something else.

not to disagree with your point (but rather to agree: Gruber is careful 
to say 'emphasis' when defining this) but any committee that had the 
time to distinguish to that extent between what is traditionally done 
with italics (and frankly, is a false set of distinctions since 
everything under '<i>' is traditionally italicised *for emphasis* (sic)) 
is a committee that needed to get out more;)
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From scott at granneman.com  Wed Aug  5 14:11:31 2015
From: scott at granneman.com (Scott Granneman)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:11:31 -0500
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <07C68DC5-1EDB-46B9-9171-5015FA213D51@jumpingrock.net>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
 <07C68DC5-1EDB-46B9-9171-5015FA213D51@jumpingrock.net>
Message-ID: <670F583D-40DC-40F9-A3FB-F213DB2C421F@granneman.com>

On 5 Aug 2015, at 9:06, Tom Humiston wrote:

> On Aug 4, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>>
>> thus, <i> before <em> e.g. less typing
>
> They're not equivalent ? there's far more difference than the amount 
> of typing, and they ought not be considered interchangeable. _When 
> used as intended, the em and strong units are almost always preferable 
> over the i and b elements._

I?m glad you quoted the specs. However, I wouldn?t say "almost 
always preferable", as it really depends on what you?re doing & what 
the content is. A lot of times, client websites that we?re working on 
end up using <i> & <b> far more than <em> & <strong>. Again, it just 
depends.

> In short, Gerald, in the guide you're preparing I wouldn't mention <i> 
> and <b> in connection with Markdown's *em* and **strong** syntax, 
> because they're really for something else.

The problem is that Markdown is so old that it pre-dates HTML5, which 
re-defined & re-emphasized the distinctions between what *appear* to be 
similar elements. Because of its age, Markdown doesn?t really provide 
a way to include <i> & <b>, which is understandable but unfortunate.

Scott
--
R. Scott Granneman
scott at granneman.com ~ www.granneman.com
Contact info: granneman.tel

?At every crossroads on the path that leads to the future, tradition 
has placed 10,000 men to guard the past.?
       ---Maurice Maeterlink

From gerald.bauer at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:27:40 2015
From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:27:40 +0200
Subject: HTML Tags <=> Markdown Quick Reference @ Write Kit
In-Reply-To: <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxEZd_Bip8tn+3dnvAj_fHUOz0K+gcn2=DvtUjTH74oqKbsyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE5C351B-C015-44D5-987A-32B85EAC4B6C@icloud.com>
 <CAAxEZd_mEYr-=h2tmeR13o3BWNqsZ3w8jRVwsaYCyt_XSHEGog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAxEZd-eQ2GeJERB-RB-=Dr+mwbPSJWMmqkiiGhEmOuvA9g+vg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

> Note: I will try to put a static site together later this
> week (using the same page, thanks to GitHub pages with built in
> Markdown processing ;-)

  FYI: The "prettified" (static site) GitHub page version is now
online [1]. Again thanks for all comments and corrections. Cheers.

[1] http://writekit.github.io