"Bottling the Air"

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Mon Oct 25 22:27:39 EDT 2010

Mike,

With no air, it can roll away unless the handbrake is set.

Thanks,

Richard


In a message dated 10/25/2010 10:13:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Interesting discussion and I appreciate the responses. One more question:
If you let bleed the air out of train car, can you not move it unless you
hook it up to an air supply from a locomotive?

Mike Weeks
Brody School of Medicine
Greenville NC

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, NW Mailing List
<_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) > wrote:


When I started working as a car inspector on SCL in 1971 at Collier, the
yard foreman(Conductor) bled the cars off when he walked and put on the
chalk marks indicating the track number that the cars were to be switched into.

Walt Gay


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From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)




To: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"


Jim,

The process of getting the cars bleed off, at least at Roanoke, has
changed through the years. Thirty years ago (and before), N&W employed "air
bleeders". These men's sole job consisted of bleeding the air off the trains
after they arrived in the receiving yard. Either before, or after, the car
department finished inspecting an inbound train, the air bleeders, as
instructed by the yardmaster, would walk the entire train, bleeding the air off all
the cars, except, leaving enough air and/or handbrakes to ensure the cars
would not move.

When a yard engine was coupled to a track to hump, the brakeman would then
remove any remaining brakes (air or hand).

At the present time, the bleedding of the cars is handled by the car
department (car knockers, car monkeys, etc), who bleed the cars as they inspect
the inbound trains. Train or yard crews still handle the brakes, as
necessary.

Jeff Sanders

--- On Mon, 10/25/10, NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) > wrote:



From: NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >
Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"
To: "NW Mailing List" <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >
Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:41 PM



What was done at Bluefield was simply a variation of what they still do in
"hump" yards (where retarders are used instead of riders). Which makes me
wonder - how do they go about releasing the brakes on cars that are humped?
I can see the men working the cut levers at the Radnor hump in Nashville,
but I don't see them doing anything with the angle cocks. In Bluefield
there were riders in proportion to the length of the cut to do the braking,
and there was a big motor car which brought the riders back up to the scale
house. Once in awhile, not enough riders would get on a cut, and there would
be a big derailment when the cut got down to the cars already at the east
end.
As to the length of time to pump up an entire train, that is why N&W
put the second air pump on the S1a's and retrofitted the S1's. I can
remember a railroader saying that the first S1's assigned to Williamson took a
long time to pump up the train. (they were accustomed to the two pumps on a
Z1a) Shortly afterward, the 200 came out of Roanoke with two pumps. How C&O
got by with one pump all those years is a mystery. They obviously had a
different operating philosophy from N&W. Jim Nichols



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From: NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >
To: NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 10:12:46 AM
Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"

Gene


Technically I would seriously doubt that.


What was done on what you saw, and someone who actually was a
brakeman/conductor like Jeff could confirm. In Bluefield yard, and other places, the
cars were set out on tracks, and a certain number of cars had hand brakes
tied down. That would depend on the size of the cut as to how many brakes were
tied down. Once hand brakes were tied down, the switch engine would cut
off, the air on the cut was dumped, causing an emergency application, but
hand brakes had already been applied. Over time, the air system would leak
off, depending on how long they had sat.


Once the yard shifter came in and coupled on to the cut, and applied its
independent brake (for the locomotive) to hold it all in place. The brake
systems on the cars had probably sat long enough that most if not all the air
had bleed off the system, but the brakemen would walk along the cut to the
triple valve on each car, and bleed off the remaining air, to release all
air brakes. The brakemen did not couple the air line, therefore the hand
brakes were all that would hold the cut. The hand brakes would still be on,
once the air had been bleed, the brakemen would go along and release the
hand brakes, the switch engine would pull back out, with the cut, into the
clear, then shove the cut towards where they were to be put, if they were
sorting cars, one man would pull the cut lever between the cars, and a
brakeman would ride the cut, if needed for controlling the speed with the hand
brake, while the cars rolled down into its track and couple with the other
cars in that track, the brakeman would tie down the hand brakes, and the go
back and do it again with another cut, etc.


Generally handing rolling cars, not coupled to a locomotive, was rarely
done with air in the system. As Harry reported, air pumping can take some
time to fill the entire train line. You used to see with the diesels, running
at high RPMs while standing, the engineer, is running the diesel up to run
the compressor faster, and pump air through the train quicker. A number of
factors can determine how long it takes to pump a train, including, of
course, train length, cold weather, how many leaks are in the system and how
much initial terminal time that crew wants to report on their time sheet!
I've heard of occasions where it would take several hours of pumping time to
release all the brakes in a coal train.


In my younger days, when I was riding my bicycle down to the track, I'd
sit and watch, and see eastbound coal trains get stopped by the signal at VN
before going into South Yard, once the signal cleared, it might take them
30-45 minutes to pump air before they moved, and that was in good weather.
They were great days, and I wish I had the interest and time to do that
today, but alas, I have neither today.


Ken Miller


On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:12 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:


Ken;


Bluefield had a natural grade in both the East and West yard with the high
point being in the area of the Round House. I remember as a young fellow
in the East End of Bluefield, watching the "yard shifters" sorting the
cars. There would be a number of cars released to freely roll to an appointed
switch to make up trains. The Yard brakeman with his brake stick would
control the speed until making couple with the other cars. I remember watching
the men try to time the coupling just right and jump up in the air so as to
miss the coming jolt of the sudden stop. I assume that free roll had to be
done by "bottling the air", which was a common practice even in the late
50's. Also I remember watching "road shifters" push cars up to a speed and
then stopping the locomotive allowing the cars to run freely though a
switch, either coming to a stop on their own, or making couple with other cars.


Gene Arnold


"Bottling the air" which I think, is now prohibited by most rule
books, means to close the angle cock (air line) on both ends of the
car or cut of cars before separating them from the train. That way,
air stays in the system, and does not dump the air to emergency on
that car or cut of cars. It is, among other things, made to speed up
operations, as with air already in the train line of those cars, it
means that the locomotive air compressor, does not have to run as long
to pump air back into the system, which can be a considerable amount
of time, meaning the crew can get underway sooner.

If the air is dumped from the car or cars, it sets those brake systems
into emergency, and to release those brakes, the air system has to be
pumped up again from the locomotive. By bottling the air, it means
that only hand brakes, or chocks may be holding the cut of cars in
place, which can lead to a drift off, or runaway, or difficulty
coupling if the brakes are not holding well.

Ken Miller


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