middle siding signals

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sat Apr 22 08:31:05 EDT 2017

Yes, at the clearance point behind the smoke, there is/should be/better 
be a westward bracket signal that governs the WB Main and the middle 
track. Looks like an S&C pole, but the bracket is barely visible.

Grant Carpenter

On 4/20/2017 8:16 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>     Is there a westbound signal hidden by the passenger train?
>     While this piece of railroad looks like all 3 tracks have bonded 
> circuits, other parts of the system had center or passing sidings that 
> were not, and often were designated as "running tracks". On late comer 
> NKP, you could come off CTC via a power switch and enter the running 
> track. Speed limits on them were up to 50 mph. At each end could be a 
> bonded circuit a few hundred feet long. If it were occupied, a 
> following movement entering the running track would get a 
> "restricting" signal, if not a "diverging approach". Rule 99 was in 
> effect on running tracks.
>     WJPowers
> On 4/19/2017 10:39 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>> Jim,
>> I would suggest that the Restricting aspect is for a call-on signal.
>> One would be looking downgrade when looking east at Villamont, so 
>> grade signals would not apply, plus grade signals are automatics, 
>> these are controlled (but note lack of "S" plate). They have a full 
>> compliment of diverging aspects at point-of-switch to govern middle 
>> track pull-in, so the middle track is bonded and signaled. A dark 
>> middle track would rate hand-thrown turnouts and no signals.
>> Actually, note that the track layout is not exactly symmetrical, but 
>> favors an easier alignment/higher speed pull-in off of the eastbound 
>> and standard crossover for pull-out to the westbound. One exception 
>> to above is if a spring switch is on the pull-out, it must be 
>> installed using the easier alignment and the signal would lack 
>> diverging aspects.
>> Before the Virginian merger, I believe a train's worth of eastbound 
>> loads were set off here (and further east?) to fill tonnage for 
>> subsequent eastbounds. That is a whole lot of back and forth thru 
>> controlled signals displaying Stop and Stay into occupied blocks of 
>> the middle track and EB Main, so to cut down on phone traffic and 
>> expedite matters, the dispatcher can override the Stop and Stay 
>> indication with Restricting, called a "call-on" signal. The 
>> Pocahontas Division was littered with these where pushers would 
>> routinely get on.
>> Grant Carpenter
>> On 4/19/2017 10:44 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> Mr. Powers,
>>> Thank you for your response.  I understand your comments on 
>>> geography.  My remaining question is why would it be advantageous to 
>>> allow an Eastbound movement to proceed at restricted speed on the 
>>> East-bound main and not be advantageous to do so for an Eastbound 
>>> movement on the West-bound main?  The layout of the middle siding 
>>> appears to by symmetrical with respect to both mains and I am trying 
>>> to understand why the signalling should be different.
>>> Thanks for your help,
>>> Jim Cochran
>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:26 AM, NW Mailing List 
>>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>>>     Jim,
>>>         A restricting signal indicates the right to proceed at a
>>>     restricting speed. That aspect does not deal with geography, it
>>>     deals with trains ahead and track circuit continuity. It sits
>>>     one position above "stop and proceed", which only deals with
>>>     trains ahead - you must stop and then proceed at a restricting
>>>     speed. Below that is "stop and stay". If there is a yellow plate
>>>     with the letter "G" on it below the signal head displaying "Stop
>>>     and stay" on the mast, a train on an ascending grade can pass
>>>     the signal without the stop, ready to stop short of a train
>>>     ahead. All the above very fine delineations of keeping your
>>>     speed safely in check.
>>>         From the photo, I cannot tell what track the furthest EB
>>>     signal controls. If it has a dummy mast to one side of it, it
>>>     may control the center siding, and most likely be like an
>>>     interlocking home signal and not have any aspect allowing a stop
>>>     and proceed.
>>>         Wm J Powers
>>>     On 4/19/2017 6:54 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>>     I believe the attached photo may show the West end of the
>>>>     middle siding at Villamont (confirmation would be
>>>>     appreciated).  My question concerns the East-bound signals that
>>>>     are visible. The signal for the East-bound main is capable of
>>>>     displaying the RESTRICTING aspect while the one for the
>>>>     West-bound main is not.  In my understanding, one reason for
>>>>     the RESTRICTING aspect was to allow a train to proceed without
>>>>     coming to a complete stop on  a grade where it might have been
>>>>     very hard to start again.  Since this stretch is signalled for
>>>>     bi-directional running, why would the signal for the West bound
>>>>     main not also be capable of showing RESTRICTING? It seems like
>>>>     the grade would have been the same for East-bound movements
>>>>     regardless of which main they were using.  Any thoughts?
>>>>     Thanks, Jim Cochran
>>>>     Moderator:
>>>>     http://www.nwhs.org/mailinglist/2017/20170419.midpasside.jpg
>>>>     <http://www.nwhs.org/mailinglist/2017/20170419.midpasside.jpg>

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