DCC CV's - Best Practices for N&W Steam
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Mon Jan 27 21:16:31 EST 2025
Hi,
Here are a few other items to consider: two opinions (so feel free to ignore them) and also two vendors.
I will say that the Tsunami’s probably have the most reliable power electronics, after you tune the coefficients in the BEMF yourself. I have never had a TSU product do strange things on me and they all work perfect after being installed for years. However, I have not really had an issue with the TCS decoders since the version 4.x series (that gives them a few years as well). I have both SoundTraxx and TSU in my locomotives. I generally view the TSUs as running slightly better and the TCS as sounding way, way better.
If you want to look into speakers: https://www.scalesoundsystems.com/ Essentially the guy who runs that shop is an electrical engineer with a specialty in sound engineering. He is 3d printing baffles specifically designed for the physics of the driver he picked which is the best available driver in its size class (I am also an Electrical Engineer and I’ll vouch for this not being marking nonsense, its real, and he is “doing it right.”). I have one K2 that has a "boiler barker" and whatever the biggest speaker in tender is called. I have not made up my mind as to if I think it’s worth it yet, but some of the noises do come out of the smoke stack which seems good. However, I’m pretty happy with my other installs that just have the big boy speaker in the tender.
Tang Band speakers is a brand to look into, but just measure the space and then buy one that fits the space. Just remember that the 8 ohm impedance and power limitations of the decoder are the things to look for. However, good car speakers/drivers are typically way better than train stuff. I have a stack of these as well, the
As far as the quality of the sounds: Many people will not hear a difference, and if that’s you great. IMHO the Soundtraxx products have a better, but lower quality whistle which is pulled from recordings of the A. It captures the energy in high pressure steam really well, it just sounds like the compression and encoding is from 1997. Sadly, Soundtraxx's sound is just not great compared to either TCS or LokSound. What I mean by this is fewer bits and bytes used on the sounds. Only having 3 settings for cutoff and using the volume change with throttle is ok, but the TCS just does that way, way better with far more variations of throttle/cutoff in the steam.
If you can tell, I strongly prefer the TCS from a quality of sound perspective and also from a recording of N&W equipment selection. I spent enough time around just museum locomotives to really hate most decoder sounds for steam, they are all bad. Not just because of the bass issue, but because the sounds are just wrong. (Don’t get me started on BLI’s sounds sets). They don’t just go chuff, chuff, chuff and I really can’t un-hear the real thing when listening to the models. Same goes for the cylinder drains, they are not just blowing static noises that gets quieter when the cylinders move. LokSound is pretty good, and the high resolution records are good but the decoder itself does not integrate them well IMHO. Soundtraxx was the leader in 2009, but just got left in the dust. IMHO they are a generation behind in the sounds their chips put out.
But just to be clear I am running both TCS and Soundtraxx on my locomotives every day, so you really can’t go wrong with either. The only warning I would give is that he break feature is totally incompatible between brands so …. at least pick one brand or have the consist settings get rid of momentum and don’t use breaks while consisted.
Actually just looking scale-sound-systems has a sale on blunami right now now, so if you want one … you are in lucks way.
David Baker
> On Jan 27, 2025, at 7:14 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Let me weigh in with my recent DCC experience so far. My previous install was in 2004 era.
>
> I am in the middle of installing a Soundtraxx Blunami decoder in my HO Precision Z1b. I am currently stalled while waiting on a back-ordered speaker enclosure (which I knew about when I ordered - they called before shipping). What I can tell you so far is that I will probably never buy another brand decoder without Bluetooth integration.
>
> It runs on any power up to 24 (I believe) volts, so:
> •it can run on a DC layout with the power turned up
> •It runs as a standard DCC decoder
> •It runs on an app from my phone (both Android or Apple)
> •it can run on an RC battery (this would be seriously easy in O scale, and some situations in HO too - you could for sure fit enough power in Jawn Henry for example, maybe also in aux tenders - how neat to power your engines with aux tenders!)
>
> So what do you give up by using this?
> •some people don't love the Soundtraxx sounds as much as LOKSound or WOWS.
> •They are a little higher than other decoders at $135
>
> What do you gain?
> •the ability to run your train on any layout, using your phone, instead of a DCC handheld
> •a much, much better interface than any DCC controller other than the mini cab control device (can't remember the name)
> •but most importantly... SETUP IS SO INCREDIBLY EASY. SERIOUSLY, A 6 YEAR OLD COULD HANDLE IT. Everything is graphics and text labels.
>
> I highly recommend you watch a couple of their youtube videos to see what programming looks like on the app, as opposed to setting CVs. I think all decoders do this, but you can set the volume for every sound effect. But on Blunami, you do it with a slider from your phone. No changing to "program mode.".. you just hit the setup gear and change what you want to change, save, and it's set. Adjusting rod clank, bells, dynamo, bell strike rates, brake effect, etc.. is real-time and so fast. I was able to set the chuff rate within seconds, not knowing how to do so in advance. I didn't open the manual except to verify wire colors. FWIW, with the motor running, when I disconnect the power, the engine runs for about 6 seconds (of course, this is with only one set of drivers and no train).
>
> Here are two video clips of the decoder in action. The first video shows off the 1218's whistle. The second video shows off the "N&W flat top hooter whistle," which I think is Class M 475's recorded whistle. In the videos, you can see a little black box: the Sugarcube mini speaker for use in the boiler. The large speaker is the speaker that I am still waiting for the speaker enclosure to arrive. I made a temp enclosure out of a medicine cup. The speaker has a piece of foam supporting it from below, so I am holding it down in the video. In the first video, I let go of the cup, and you can hear the difference between enclosed and not enclosed. Hint: it is significant. The medicine cup is not optimal, and there is a slight vibration that is noticeable due to the flimsy plastic.
>
> 1218 Hooter, along with test running sounds
> https://youtu.be/zfUBrPRsG34
>
> "N&W flat top hooter" - Just the whistle. I don't love this, but I passed along some of the recent Christmas videos from Strasburg to their support team, and it seemed like they appreciated the feedback. Who knows?
> https://youtu.be/HSm9ODkKFKw
>
>
> FWIW, below is the list of items I bought from Tony's Train Exchange. Shipping was reasonably fast and cost $14. total cost was $230. I knew the speaker enclosure was backordered when I placed the order. They called and I said to wait and ship when complete, but they said they will ship it out at no charge when it is back in stock. They are really helpful in suggesting parts, btw. I emailed them the engine I was doing, and they recommended the speakers and told me to call if I needed help.
>
> Item # Description
> tcs1476 TCS 1476 6-Pin Micro Connector (Black and White Wires)
> stx884607 SoundTraxx 884607, Blunami BLU-2200 Bluetooth Controlled Tsunami2 DCC Sound Decoder, Steam-2
> stx810140 Soundtraxx 810140 CurrentKeeper™
> led0603wwpk Tony's TTX Ultra Micro LED, 0603 Warm White, 4 Pack, With Resistors
> tdsSSminiENC TDS SuperSonic Mini 15 x 11 mm Speaker Enclosure [Sugar Cube]
> tdsSSmini TDS SuperSonic Mini 15 x 11 mm Speaker [Sugar Cube]
> tdshb1.06 TDS High Bass 1.06 X 0.56 Speaker
>
>
>
> Mike Rector
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2025 at 5:32 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>> TCS wow sound, but whatever the large scale version is called.
>>
>> It's going to sound fantastic on a real speaker. There are even a few n&w equipment items in there to choose besides the whistles.
>>
>> You might want to wait a bit to see if they release a new version, it's been in the works a while now.
>>
>> David Baker
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2025, 1:44 PM NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>>> Speaking of DCC and steam locomotives, what recommendations does everyone have for a sound decoder for an K2a? I have a 2 rail O model from Sunset that needs DCC and sound.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Joseph Congemi
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 1:28 PM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> The Class K was capable of speeds much in excess of 35 mph. Remember, it was the primary passenger engine until the class J came along. No one pays any attention because it was not one of the "big three" designs, but I'd say an upward limitation in excess of 80 is more likely.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 14, 2025 at 04:25:17 PM EST, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> More or less none of those cv settings have universal values, and most are going to be specific to the locomotive.
>>>>
>>>> The speed curves depend on your preference and also decoder type. I recommend the default, non linear responses drive me nuts, but that's your call.
>>>>
>>>> Speed matching is just pick your best and smoothest runner and use it as the benchmark. I would not bother trying for scale MPH limited by the decoder. The trim/matching is set by experimenting. TCS has a match feature, which you just follow they verbal instruction it gives you to set that up. Otherwise it's a very tedious process.
>>>>
>>>> Your question about consisting should be more general about if and how lights and sounds were matched by locomotives that ran together?
>>>>
>>>> David Baker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 1:27 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
>>>> Steam Modelers;
>>>> It’s been a long time since I’ve seen any messages from the NW-Modeling-List leaving me to wonder if it has fallen into disuse. So, I’ll post here on the NW-Mailing-List.
>>>>
>>>> I am initiating the task of programming the CV’s of a small number of N&W Steamers in classes A, J, K, S1, Y3, & Y6b and many questions are coming to mind. So, why not tap into the best data source for guidance? As you share information, please indicate the Locomotive Class.
>>>>
>>>> Beginning with some foundational matters:
>>>>
>>>> My goal is to keep things reasonably realistic. For example; The Y classes were not speed-demons, and the K classes had operational speed limits due to counterbalance issues.
>>>>
>>>> When dealing with acceleration and deceleration rates – I’m rather torn about actually putting hard values in CV’s because I would say they should be dependent on external conditions such as train power and weight, in addition to terrain.
>>>>
>>>> Have you pursued speed limitations? Initial research suggested these top speeds for Road Power:
>>>> Class A – 70 mph
>>>> Class J – 110 mph
>>>> Class K – 35 mph
>>>> Class Y – 50 mph
>>>>
>>>> What are you using for:
>>>> CV 02 – Start Voltage
>>>> CV 03 – Acceleration Rate
>>>> CV 04 - Deceleration Rate
>>>> CV 05 – High Voltage (Speed Limiting)
>>>> CV 06 – Mid Voltage
>>>> CV 65 – Kick Start
>>>>
>>>> Speed Curves:
>>>> Which are you using?
>>>> 3-point curve? (Start, Mid, High of a preloaded curve)
>>>> CV 25 - Speed Table Selection? Which one?
>>>> 14 step or 28 step configured?
>>>> What do you have for CV 67 to CV 94?
>>>> Are you using a Throttle Control Mode? If so, which one?
>>>>
>>>> Speed Matching & Consisting:
>>>> If it is Speed Matched, to what locomotive?
>>>> What values do you use for:
>>>> CV 66 – Forward Trim
>>>> CV 95 – Reverse Trim
>>>> What values do you use for consisting with other Locomotives:
>>>> CV 21 – Consist Functions Fn1 to Fn8
>>>> CV 22 – Consist Functions Fn0 & Fn9 to Fn12
>>>> CV 23 – Consist Acceleration Rate
>>>> CV 24 - Consist Deceleration Rate
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Dave Willis
>>>> Blt 1962, CN 4
>>>>
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