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<p>Jim,<br>
That is an old "speed" definition used many years ago on the
N&W proper. That<b><i> "aspect"</i></b> in now called
"Diverging Clear". The definition is: "Proceed through diverging
route, observing authorized speed through turnout(s) or
crossover(s)." The "authorized speed" can be found in the
"Employee Time Table".<br>
Note that signal rules can differ from one RR to another. For
example, what was good for the Wabash was probably very different
than what was used on the N&W. Even districts across the
N&W (proper) had minor different aspects particular to that
district. These differences would also be found in the ETT.<br>
</p>
<p>Jimmy Lisle<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/19/2025 8:55 AM, NW Mailing List
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.2959.1750345739.722595.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">All signal fans,
<div>I just found this definition/explanation for what a
"diverging" route can be interpreted to be and it covers the
case at Vera:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img src="cid:part1.O9IlqV0d.UvZgnWD9@ntelos.net"
alt="image.png" width="562" height="357" class=""><br>
</div>
<div>One of these days I hope to understand to signal a
railroad.</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at
8:47 PM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>The operating book rules calls out the AAR rules in my
'51 and '45 rule book. That is speed signaling, although
if you look at the rules as written they do a bad job
explaining that. The only thing that usually drove medium
speed was a diverging route in a turnout.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is there another facing point turnout ahead?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">David Baker</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 18, 2025,
6:44 PM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Grant,
<div>Thanks for the reply and great seeing you at
the con as well. Your answer caused me to dig
more deeply into the history of N&W
aspects/indications and in particular the
horizontal arm over vertical arm aspect that has
most recently been referred to as "diverging
clear". Please refer to the attached pages from
N&W rule books as reference for what follows.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1910 it was called "slower speed route
clear" when used in conjunction with one high
speed route and diverging routes. Seems clear
this was speed signaling.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1915 it was "proceed under control, being
prepared to stop".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1930 it was just "proceed". Does anyone
have a copy of the rules between 1915 and 1930?
I'd like to know what that one has to say.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1945 it was " proceed through diverging
route at prescribed speed". This looks like route
signaling. Again if someone has intervening
information, I'd appreciate knowing about it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1951 it was " proceed through turnout route
at prescribed speed" which would seem to indicate
route signaling, but the aspect name is "medium
clear" which point toward speed signaling.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1961 it was the same but showed the option
of a colorized aspect.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I know this was maintained until the
end of the N&W. The term through diverging or
turnout route seems to reinforce my questioning
its use where one line "joins" another. When I
visited Tom Dressler many years ago, he informed
me that going "through" a turnout was to take the
diverging path while going "over" a turnout meant
staying on the non-diverging route. Both of these
would indicate a facing points movement and
wouldn't seem to be readily applicable to trailing
points movements.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The NORAC definition of this aspect is
something like proceed at medium speed until you
train clears turnouts or interlockings and then
proceed at prescribed speed. This would seem
appropriate for such a situation as we find at
Vera, but I have not seen this kink of definition
in any reference for N&W signaling.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope there may be more to the story and would
welcome input from anyone who has
experience/knowledge of how N&W signaling
worked and the philosophy used by the system
designers.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 17,
2025 at 7:47 PM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Jim,<br>
<br>
Generally. . .<br>
<br>
Route signaling is speed signaling by
implication. <br>
<br>
So, diverging aspects can indicate a lower
speed through the diverging route of a
turnout, compared to the adjacent track speed,
and regardless of direction.<br>
<br>
So, diverging aspects will be used when facing
points, and may be used when trailing points.<br>
<br>
. . . mostly.<br>
<br>
Good to see you and All at the Convention.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
On 6/8/2025 10:31 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Attached is a photo of Vera
Jct. showing the signal facing Peavine
traffic. Why would the "main stem" from
Columbus have been considered a "diverging"
route in this case? Perhaps it is in some
way analogous to middle sidings being
signaled for diverging aspects where they
rejoin the main. I tend to think of
diverging aspects being displayed to facing
points movements where they are signaled to
take a route that "diverges" from the one
they are currently on. Of course there are
no "joining" aspects, so did the term
"diverging" cover the act of taking a route
that your current route is joining? Any
thoughts will be appreciated.
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
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