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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Jim,<br>
<br>
Site of RD Tower, my few recollections of specifics at this
interlocking go back to the 70s. This is looking east into the
Christiansburg District of the Radford Division. The westward
home signals are on the distant cantilever and the eastward home
signals are about the same distance behind the photographer on the
main line past a crossover.<br>
<br>
Here, in the middle of the interlocking, two westward tracks each
diverged from the WB main under the 611's train, thus the two
eastward diverging home signals. The left signal governed the
Radford Pull-In Track that ran up the north edge of the yard, and
the right signal governed a third (freight) main that ran up the
south side of the yard. Confused, I don't know why only three
tracks are visible in the photo. <br>
<br>
A second trailing crossover permitted eastbounds to pull out of
the yard while westbounds used the Radford Pull-In.<br>
<br>
Yes, the next controlled signals east were at Blake.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
On 6/29/2025 9:21 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">OK, I have looked at more pictures/maps of the East
end of Bluefield yard and it appears that the signals in
question are associated with a crossover(s) between the mains
before you get to the highway bridge. This plant appears to be
un-signaled from the Westbound side and there don't appear to be
any other turnouts until you hit Blake. Does anybody know why
the crossover would not need to be signaled coming in off the
(is it Radford or Christiansburg District)? Also, can someone
provide information on the changes to crossover and general
arrangement here over the years? How long ago was it changed to
a single crossover? What were the tracks that crossed over the
mains at one point?
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at
9:42 AM NW Mailing List <<a
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wrote:<br>
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<div>
<div>David,<br>
<br>
Looks familiar, where is this? The lower rank of the
signal contributes to its aspect, indicating a siding. The
siding's speed restriction could be as low as that of the
turnout by Rule 105, or even lower by Employee Time Table.
This is an example of variations and exceptions that I
hedged/weaseled about in my first reply.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part1.w2AO0JzN.IU00ePLI@gmail.com" alt=""
width="599" height="399"><br>
<br>
On 6/24/2025 5:39 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">I'd love to know what is causing that
there, a trailing point spring switch, not having
medium approach medium, .... Idk</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You can give clear in the nominal case
like this. I only had 3 photos on hand. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">David Baker</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 24,
2025, 3:17 PM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
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wrote:<br>
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<div>
<div>Jim,<br>
<br>
With apologies, I'll attempt a reply to your
original post with some specifics.<br>
<br>
Diverging indications notify an engine crew of a
speed restriction due to one or more turnouts
ahead. By 1951, anyway, N&W Operating Rule
105 (b) simply stated that unless otherwise
provided, speed is restricted to 25MPH for
passenger trains and 15MPH for other trains or
engines when using turnouts or crossovers. As
Jimmy stated, exceptions were noted in ETTs and
could vary a lot, for example, between the
Radford and Pocahontas Divisions.<br>
<br>
So, diverging aspects are applied to signals in
both directions "through" the turnout's
slower/secondary route. BTW, the N&W's CPL
version is not included in the earlier Rule 283
examples below. The three diverging indications
are shown here, starting with the
distant/advance signal indication Approach
Diverging:<br>
<br>
<img moz-do-not-send="true"> <br>
<img alt="" moz-do-not-send="true"><br>
<br>
This is an eastbound at Vera Jct. on the
Cincinnati line approaching the turnout on the
eastbound main from Columbus, shown in the
lower-right corner. I can't recall specifics as
to what other signals are here (bi-directional?
both directions? etc.) in this time frame and
with which aspects.<br>
<br>
So, what's with the term "medium" and the
N&W? <br>
<br>
I don't know. I've asked around, and this came
up here on the List several years ago. As of
1951, it appeared in two contexts within N&W
signal rules:<br>
<br>
In the signal indication description of Rule 285
– Approach, the term "medium speed" appeared:
"Proceed preparing to stop at next signal. Train
exceeding medium speed must at once reduce to
that speed." It appeared in the Operating Rules
Definitions as half the max authorized speed,
but not to exceed 30MPH.<br>
<br>
In the name of the three "diverging" indication
rules, "medium" replaced "diverging," e.g.,
Diverging Clear became Medium Clear. However,
the term "prescribed speed" was used in the rule
descriptions per Rule 105 (b) above – not medium
speed.<br>
<br>
Neither usage appeared to have much, if any,
direct relevance, and the ambiguity seemed to be
acknowledged later, because by the 1981 Rule
Book, both instances were deleted. "Medium" was
changed back to "Diverging" for indication
names, and the reference to "medium speed" was
removed from the Approach Rule description and
the term was removed from the Rules Definitions.
<br>
<br>
Hope this helps, just my take; edits, thoughts
and questions welcome.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
On 6/19/2025 7:55 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">All signal fans,
<div>I just found this definition/explanation
for what a "diverging" route can be
interpreted to be and it covers the case at
Vera:<img alt="" moz-do-not-send="true"></div>
<div>One of these days I hope to understand to
signal a railroad.</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun
18, 2025 at 8:47 PM NW Mailing List <<a
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wrote:<br>
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<div dir="auto">
<div>The operating book rules calls out
the AAR rules in my '51 and '45 rule
book. That is speed signaling, although
if you look at the rules as written they
do a bad job explaining that. The only
thing that usually drove medium speed
was a diverging route in a turnout.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is there another facing
point turnout ahead?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">David Baker</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Jun 18, 2025, 6:44 PM NW
Mailing List <<a
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<div dir="ltr">Grant,
<div>Thanks for the reply and
great seeing you at the con as
well. Your answer caused me to
dig more deeply into the history
of N&W aspects/indications
and in particular the horizontal
arm over vertical arm aspect
that has most recently been
referred to as "diverging
clear". Please refer to the
attached pages from N&W rule
books as reference for what
follows.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1910 it was called "slower
speed route clear" when used in
conjunction with one high speed
route and diverging routes.
Seems clear this was speed
signaling.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1915 it was "proceed under
control, being prepared to
stop".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1930 it was just
"proceed". Does anyone have a
copy of the rules between 1915
and 1930? I'd like to know what
that one has to say.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1945 it was " proceed
through diverging route at
prescribed speed". This looks
like route signaling. Again if
someone has intervening
information, I'd appreciate
knowing about it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1951 it was " proceed
through turnout route at
prescribed speed" which would
seem to indicate route
signaling, but the aspect name
is "medium clear" which point
toward speed signaling.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 1961 it was the same but
showed the option of a colorized
aspect.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I know this was
maintained until the end of the
N&W. The term through
diverging or turnout route seems
to reinforce my questioning its
use where one line "joins"
another. When I visited Tom
Dressler many years ago, he
informed me that going "through"
a turnout was to take the
diverging path while going
"over" a turnout meant staying
on the non-diverging route.
Both of these would indicate a
facing points movement and
wouldn't seem to be readily
applicable to trailing points
movements.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The NORAC definition of this
aspect is something like proceed
at medium speed until you train
clears turnouts or interlockings
and then proceed at prescribed
speed. This would seem
appropriate for such a situation
as we find at Vera, but I have
not seen this kink of definition
in any reference for N&W
signaling.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope there may be more to the
story and would welcome input
from anyone who has
experience/knowledge of how
N&W signaling worked and the
philosophy used by the system
designers.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran <br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 7:47 PM NW
Mailing List <<a
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wrote:<br>
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<div>
<div>Jim,<br>
<br>
Generally. . .<br>
<br>
Route signaling is speed
signaling by implication. <br>
<br>
So, diverging aspects can
indicate a lower speed
through the diverging route
of a turnout, compared to
the adjacent track speed,
and regardless of direction.<br>
<br>
So, diverging aspects will
be used when facing points,
and <u>may</u> be used when
trailing points.<br>
<br>
. . . mostly.<br>
<br>
Good to see you and All at
the Convention.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
On 6/8/2025 10:31 AM, NW
Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Attached is a
photo of Vera Jct. showing
the signal facing Peavine
traffic. Why would the
"main stem" from Columbus
have been considered a
"diverging" route in this
case? Perhaps it is in
some way analogous to
middle sidings being
signaled for diverging
aspects where they rejoin
the main. I tend to think
of diverging aspects being
displayed to facing points
movements where they are
signaled to take a route
that "diverges" from the
one they are currently
on. Of course there are
no "joining" aspects, so
did the term "diverging"
cover the act of taking a
route that your current
route is joining? Any
thoughts will be
appreciated.
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
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