<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Abe, I received the following response on your question:<div><br></div><div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;">Matt,</span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><font color="#26282a" face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.26px;">I don't think you will find any references to such a "visual identification" within the archives.</span></font></div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">"Begin forwarded message:</span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;"><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;">An order of the Interstate Commerce Commission stipulated that after June 30, 1949, cars equipped with arch bar trucks must not be interchanged between railroads, except in the case of a car returning to the owning road for repair or scrapping."</span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;">The ICC had nothing to do with the prohibition of arch bar side frames. The implementation of the rules was started by the American Railway Association in 1930 when a new paragraph was added to Interchange Rule 3, section (t): Trucks, with arch bars, prohibited, effective January 1, 1936, under all cars. From owners.</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;">It was also stipulated when the rule was approved that the date would be extended if the ruling proved to be a hardship on railroads.</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;">The date was extended to January 1, 1938, by the Association of American Railroads in 1935. </span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; letter-spacing: -0.02em;">A further extension to January 1, 1939, was followed by one final extension to July 1, 1940. There were absolutely no ICC orders regarding the use of arch bars in interchange in 1949. This false information was on a website recently. I sent corrections asking for documentation and received no word back. The ICC's Annual Reports contain no language regarding arch bars trucks after 1940. </span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;">"To address the known problems with arch bar trucks, as early as 1938 some railroad began placing an obvious visual identification on such cars, in the form of a large letter A enclosed in a circle, following the car number, on each side of the car."</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;">It's possible, but I doubt many roads applied such a stencil to cars. As long as the rules permitted the use of the side frames why bother? After July 1, 1940 cars equipped with arch bar side frames could be used for online service and it was permissible to offer the cars for loading within switching districts as long as they were promptly returned to the home road after loading. All such cars still equipped were supposed to be noted within the ORER and stenciled: "Online Service Only". </span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;">And, of course, a few cars likely escaped but so few in number that it is hardly worth mentioning. </span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;">Regards,</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;">Guy Wilber</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: -0.02em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-size: 13px;">Reno, Nevada </span></div></div><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Matt Goodman</div><div>Columbus, Ohio</div><div><br></div>Sent from my mobile</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Sep 15, 2025, at 6:38 PM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org> wrote:<br><br></div><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">That’s an interesting question that I hope to learn from. I was aware of the non-interchangeability of cars with arch bars, but painted designations is a new one. <div><br></div><div>In the meantime, I’ll forward the question to the nerds on one of the other mailing lists I monitor. <br><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Matt Goodman</div><div>Columbus, Ohio</div><div><br></div>Sent from my mobile</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Sep 15, 2025, at 12:39 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org> wrote:<br><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">An order of the Interstate Commerce Commission stipulated that after June 30, 1949, cars equipped with arch bar trucks must not be interchanged between railroads, except in the case of a car returning to the owning road for repair or scrapping.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">To address the known problems with arch bar trucks, as early as 1938 some railroad began placing an obvious visual identification on such cars, in the form of a large letter A enclosed in a circle, following the car number, on each side of the car.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">I do not recall seeing the A-in-a--Circle on any N&W equipment, or photos of same. Does anyone know if the N&W ever painted such identifications on its arch bar equipment?</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Just as an aside, arch bar trucks were still used on captive-equipment at steel mills well past the year 2000, and some of it may still be in use. The last wreck I saw caused by arch bar trucks was about 2005, and it was on an old flat car used in steel mill service, occasioned by the collapse of one of the arches, under load and on a curve.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">So, did the N&W ever do the A-in-a-Circle thing ... ?</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(55,65,81)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Solum Magister Miller non scire responsum. ( Only Mister would know the answer... :-) )</font></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">-- abram burnett</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Transgenerational Epigenetic Centrifugal Potential Turnips, Inc.</font></div><div> </div></div>
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