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Hello all,<div>Thanks for all the insights shared here. Nothing like an oddball question to get the group going. LOL.</div><div>The sharing of knowledge/memories is what it’s about!<br><br>Andre Jackson<br><div class="yahoo-signature"><a style="font-size:12px" href="https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_&af_ios_store_cpp=9d3a686e-218d-4849-8298-b480188dc8ac&af_android_url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail%26listing%3Demail_signature">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a><br></div><br><p class="yahoo-quoted-begin" style="font-size: 15px; color: rgb(132, 115, 255); padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0px;">On Tuesday, September 16, 2025, 9:06 PM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org> wrote:</p><blockquote class="iosymail"><div id="yiv8817537762"><div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;"> <span style="font-family:helvetica;font-size:12pt;">I am attaching a copy of a photo from the <em>1966 Car and Locomotive Cyclopedia Of American Practice </em>with the caption "Blocking a load of wallboard on a flatcar having Nailable Steel Flooring" which may be of interest. I defer to the moderators on whether this can be shared since the publication was Copyright 1966 by Simmmons-Boardman Publishing Company.</span>
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<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;" class="yiv8817537762default-style"> <span style="font-family:helvetica;font-size:12pt;">As far as grain doors, I recall boxcars on the clean-out track with heavy paper or cardboard that had been installed for grain loading and I remember packages of the product around Indiana grain elevators. I may have a copy of the advertisement somewhere from the company that made them and will share it if I turn it up.</span>
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<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;" class="yiv8817537762default-style"> <span style="font-family:helvetica;font-size:12pt;">W. E. Honeycutt</span>
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On 09/16/2025 7:00 PM EDT NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org> wrote:
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</div> Hi all
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There was a thread about this on the B&O group if I can find it I'll post here.
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John Musgrove
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On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 5:16 PM, NW Mailing List
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<nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org> wrote:
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What were the grain doors made of?
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Carl Barna
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Emmaus, PA
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<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8817537762divRplyFwdMsg"> <span style="font-size:11pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><strong>From:</strong> NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list-bounces@nwhs.org> on behalf of NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><br clear="none"><strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, September 16, 2025 12:59 PM<br clear="none"><strong>To:</strong> NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><br clear="none"><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: A Q about F4 plasterboard flatcars</span>
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This account reminds me of a minor experience that I had during one of
<br clear="none">my four summers working as a laborer for the N&W. In June and July 1954
<br clear="none">I was the short boom operator on the N&W's weed spraying train as we
<br clear="none">sprayed the entire N&W east of Williamson, WV (eat your heart out
<br clear="none">railfans !). The other spray train employees' normal jobs were in the
<br clear="none">Maintenance of Way department.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"> Incidentally, a contractor sprayed west of Williamson.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"> Late one day we ran out of spray chemical near Roanoke. To avoid
<br clear="none">having us just sit around the next day doing nothing while we waited for
<br clear="none">another car of chemical, we were put to work stacking grain doors into
<br clear="none">box cars, apparently for shipping somewhere. I may not have known why
<br clear="none">we were stacking these fairly heavy doors into box cars, but I can
<br clear="none">verify that this was the most strenuous job that this 127-lb weakling
<br clear="none">had during his four summers on the N&W.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">Gordon Hamilton
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">On 9/16/2025 9:45 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
<br clear="none">> Comrade Andreas Jackovich doth ye inquire about the wrapping paper
<br clear="none">> (and red bows) used to protect plasterboard hauled on bulkhead flats.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> Yes, the product was wrapped, in my experience. The color of the
<br clear="none">> wrapping material was white, having the various trade names of the
<br clear="none">> manufacturers printed upon it.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> Many (most?) of the loadings of plywood shipped today are wrapped with
<br clear="none">> an almost identical wrapping. >From my vantage point as an East Coast
<br clear="none">> Weenie, I see a lot of wrapped forest products on the trains coming
<br clear="none">> south out of Canada. Not long ago, I counted 13 loads of wrapped
<br clear="none">> forest products on the head end of a southbound train coming down from
<br clear="none">> the People's Republic of the Maple Leaf. My guess is those wrapped
<br clear="none">> bundles are unwrapped at such places as Home Depot and Lowe's... so
<br clear="none">> you might be able to find the wrapping material around the dumpsters
<br clear="none">> at such businesses.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> At the time I hired (1964,) palletization was a fairly new thing, and
<br clear="none">> many things were still done the old way. I remember seeing, one day,
<br clear="none">> at Vinton, a four-man gang unloading a boxcar of lumber... piece by
<br clear="none">> piece, stick by stick. Two men in the car, passing the individual
<br clear="none">> pieces of lumber, one by one, to two men outside. How inefficient !
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> Also, a great deal of grain was still moving in boxcars. The doors on
<br clear="none">> the box cars were not closed, but the openings were spanned by a
<br clear="none">> fabricated wooden "grain door," made from heavy planking and nailed in
<br clear="none">> place from the inside of the car. Each grain door was about two feet
<br clear="none">> high, and two were used on each side, one atop the other. Only
<br clear="none">> single-door boxcars were used for this type loading.) The car was
<br clear="none">> loaded from the silo by using a big gravity-fed hose, which a man
<br clear="none">> inside the car maneuvered around until the grain was about four feet
<br clear="none">> deep in the car. To unload, the grain doors were removed and the
<br clear="none">> grain spilled out the side of the car. Aluminum "grain shovels" were
<br clear="none">> used to clear the car. In some places, a large sheet of aluminum
<br clear="none">> functioned as a "plough" to plough the grain out of the car. A chain
<br clear="none">> or cable was affixed to the middle of the aluminum sheet, the other
<br clear="none">> end being attached to a motorized windlass. One man would drag the
<br clear="none">> big aluminum sheet back into the car and sink it down into the grain,
<br clear="none">> and the other man would operate the windlass, pulling the plough sheet
<br clear="none">> to the door, where the grain was expelled onto the ground. I last saw
<br clear="none">> "grain boxes" and "grain doors" in use was shortly before 1970. And
<br clear="none">> yes, a LOT of grain leaked out of those cars, and in the Spring one
<br clear="none">> would see corn sprouting in the ballast section, on both sides of the
<br clear="none">> tracks. Nowadays, the covered hopper has taken over the business of
<br clear="none">> the old grain boxcar. (The house I was raised in had a coal furnace,
<br clear="none">> and the front sheet of our coal bin was an old grain door from the
<br clear="none">> railroad.)
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> Boxcars were graded according to their fitness for the next load. Car
<br clear="none">> Inspectors carried tags which would be nailed to the car's tackboard,
<br clear="none">> showing the class of the car. I do not remember specifics, but there
<br clear="none">> were Class A, B and C cars, and several of those classes were followed
<br clear="none">> by a numeral, e.g C-1. Food products, as I recall, had to move in
<br clear="none">> Class A Cars A car selected for grain had to be free from holes in
<br clear="none">> the floor which would cause leakage of the grain, holes in the roof
<br clear="none">> which would admit water, etc. As I recall, Johnson-Carper Furniture
<br clear="none">> Co. at North Roanoke would only take Class B or better cars, for their
<br clear="none">> loading.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> When boxcars were dirty (full of dunnage, corn, lime, etc) and thus
<br clear="none">> unsuitable for further loading, they would be sent to the Clean Out
<br clear="none">> Hole, where gangs of men would clean them out and broom the floors.
<br clear="none">> One Clean Out Hole was at Payne, Va, where cars were cleaned out for
<br clear="none">> loading by the furniture factories at Bassett and Martinsville.
<br clear="none">> Another was at West Roanoke where the old West End Rolling Mill was
<br clear="none">> formerly located, on the south side of the yard. To this day, the
<br clear="none">> site of the old Clear Out Hole is just a field and you can see it in
<br clear="none">> the satellite imagery at coordinates 37.2759, -79.9846. The ground in
<br clear="none">> that area was raised about 8 feet in my time at Roanoke, due to the
<br clear="none">> trash cleaned out and bulldozed. As I recall, MW (Maintenance of Way)
<br clear="none">> gangs were used to clean the cars... not sure about this. At the
<br clear="none">> Payne Clean Out Hole, we used to use our .22 pistols to shoot the rats
<br clear="none">> which infested the place (they dined sumptously on the grain.) The
<br clear="none">> Clean Out Hole at Payne was located at approx coordinates 36.7155,
<br clear="none">> -79.9390, along the river bank. There were two clean out tracks, each
<br clear="none">> good for probably 25 cars.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> There were also two quarries at Buchanan, Va, which loaded loose lime
<br clear="none">> in boxcars. The local freights (No's 102 and 103, as I recall,) could
<br clear="none">> never get by that place without spending a significant amount of time
<br clear="none">> switching. It was a nasty place to work in the rain... slick and
<br clear="none">> slippery and dangerous underfoot. As I recall, those cars were
<br clear="none">> "signboarded," i.e. stencilled Assigned Service - When Empty Return to
<br clear="none">> Agent Calera VA for Reloading. They were so filthy that they were
<br clear="none">> unsuitable for any other loading.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> At Buchanan, everything was covered with white powder and on a sunny
<br clear="none">> day the bright reflection caused pain to one's eyes. Back then, any
<br clear="none">> employee whose duties required him to observe signals was prohibited
<br clear="none">> from wearing sunglasses, but at such places we did it anyway, out of
<br clear="none">> self defense. Same situation at Kimballton, Va, on the Potts Valley
<br clear="none">> Branch, and at Plasterco, Va, on the Saltville Branch. Finally,
<br clear="none">> "Neutral Gray" lenses were developed, which would not distort one's
<br clear="none">> color perception, and those type lenses were approved for use in Train
<br clear="none">> & engine service.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> At some point, perhaps in the early 1970s, the railroads realized they
<br clear="none">> were spending a lot of unnecessary money cleaning cars. Some
<br clear="none">> consignees would even use cars they had emptied for dumpsters, and
<br clear="none">> load their trash inside them and close the doors before the local
<br clear="none">> freight picked up the cars. The railroads worked for years to get such
<br clear="none">> practices stopped. The final fix was to return such rolling garbage
<br clear="none">> bins to the offending patron, make him unload his own garbage, and
<br clear="none">> charge him a per diem charge (daily rental fee) for every day the car
<br clear="none">> had been unfit for revenue service... which could have been three weeks !
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> One more story about plasterboard moving on flat cars... There were
<br clear="none">> obviously damage claims arising from rough handling of fragile
<br clear="none">> materials like plasterboard. So, to identify where the damage was
<br clear="none">> occuring, impact recording devices were sometimes attached to the
<br clear="none">> loads. We called them "bugs." These devices were wrapped in a plastic
<br clear="none">> covering and were secured at one end of the car, adjacent to the
<br clear="none">> loaded product. As I recall them, they were cylindrical, perhaps 20
<br clear="none">> inches long and 15 inches in diameter. When we came upon one of
<br clear="none">> these bugs, some of us younger Trainmen, in the spirit of merriment
<br clear="none">> and funmaking, would take old brake shoes and give the recording
<br clear="none">> device several stout whacks, just to furnish the poor soul who read
<br clear="none">> the tapes something to wonder about ! Faithful employees, were we
<br clear="none">> not... ? Oh, well, it relieved the tedium of our work routines.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> Comrade Andreas also asks about the relative proportions of loads
<br clear="none">> coming out of Plasterco in box cars vs. bulkhead flats. Unfortunately,
<br clear="none">> I do not know. When I worked the Saltville Branch, I was a newbie and
<br clear="none">> spent most of my time trying to figure out which direction to turn a
<br clear="none">> brake wheel, and how to keep from getting screamed at again by the
<br clear="none">> grouchy old Conductor. We did move out of Plasterco both bulkhead
<br clear="none">> flats and boxcars loaded with plasterboard, but that's all I
<br clear="none">> remember. The Conductor never told dumb kid Brakemen like me what
<br clear="none">> was in the cars or their destination. If you pressed me for an
<br clear="none">> answer, I would say that I don't recall moving more than a half-dozen
<br clear="none">> flat cars out of Plasterco at a time, BUT THEN Plasterco got two
<br clear="none">> switches a day: one by the morning local, and another by the night
<br clear="none">> local. Most of my time on the Saltville Branch was spent on the night
<br clear="none">> job.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> For Saltville details, you might want to consult with Mr. Gary Price,
<br clear="none">> who is on this List. Having grown up in Saltville, he knows a lot
<br clear="none">> about the area. He used to throw rocks at me when I passed through on
<br clear="none">> a train, but now he is a successful entrepreneur and runs his own
<br clear="none">> fermented products business in Smyth County, Va.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> So now we have covered plasterboard, lumber and grain. You asked me
<br clear="none">> for the time of day, and I told you how to build a clock. Lots of OId
<br clear="none">> Geezer Memories. Please fax in twenty-five cents, to cover postage
<br clear="none">> and handling.
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> Cheers from Retirementville. I just passed Mile Post 80 and am now
<br clear="none">> shootin' for MP 100, so you better git outta my way, Sonny !
<br clear="none">>
<br clear="none">> -- abram burnett
<br clear="none">> Commissioner of the National Strategic Turnip Reserve
<br clear="none">> .
<br clear="none">>
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