<div dir="ltr">Grant,<div>Should I forget to say it explicitly in any of my messages, know that I am always grateful to you for sharing your knowledge. OK, it is the start of a normal working day in the mid 1950s in Bluefield. A "pool" run (was that how they were referred to?) is assembled with a long string of empties bookended by power. Was the power Ys? Were there 2? Was one running in reverse? Since I assume most pool yards had two switches off the main, what was the reason for using locomotives with opposite facings?</div><div>Jim Cochran</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List <<a href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
Jim,<br>
<br>
That's right, there was a pool of road crews based in each main
terminal, Elkhorn Pool in Bluefield and Tug River Pool in
Williamson, that hauled empties (when available) to storage points
and returned with loads from storage points. Mine runs only had to
move empties and loads between tipples and the nearest storage
point. Those points on the main line from Bluefield west to Iaeger
included: Mullins Middle, Flat Top Yard, Bluestone (River Track),
Angle Branch, Morgan Storage, North Fork Hollow/Elk Ridge Storage,
Byrd Yard, Eckman Yard, Vivian (Kimball Yard), Cirrus Storage, Huger
Middle, Superior #3 Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage, Caples
Outlet, Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage, Claren Storage and Hull
Middle (the limit of Elkhorn crews). Branchline yards served by pool
runs included Clift, Wilcoe and Auville. <br>
<br>
As I mentioned earlier, operation limits, variations and exceptions
were typical; however, to your last point, I agree it is a good idea
to limit my posts to the specific questions and limit details, so
feel free to follow up.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing List
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Grant et al.
<div>Thank you so much for your responses, I will keep asking as
long as you keep answering :-)</div>
<div>From the Pokey's point of view, empties magically appeared
in huge strings at Bluefield and Williamson, and needed to be
distributed to every mining operation. What I think I just
put together from Grant's response (please correct me on
anything/everything) is there was a distribution hierarchy of
runs to keep everyone supplied. Those big "mainline" runs
that I started with in my first post, would start their runs
"all empty" and set off cuts at what I will call distribution
points (yards) while picking up loads from these large holding
facilities. The ones that come to my mind are Flat Top,
Cliff, Byrd, Eckman, Vivian/Kimball, and I get foggier as I go
West of my primary area of interest. Mike you probably know
the ones around Iaeger, so please chime in. Is there a
comprehensive list? The mainline run would, at some point
have set off all its empties and picked up a full train of
loads and head back to its terminal of origin be it Bluefield
or Williamson. How am I doing so far? I am going to keep my
posts somewhat short so as to try to concentrate on a limited
aspect at a time to help keep things straight, at least for
me.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 20, 2025 at
8:53 PM NW Mailing List <<a href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org" target="_blank">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Jim,<br>
<br>
My apologies for the late arrival.<br>
<br>
What Chris states didn't change much from the steam era when
there were more runs to more tipples. Every run was
different, in part, because, "the type of moves really
varied from one coal operation to the next." Some tipples
were stub-end (Crumpler), but most were run-arounds with an
inlet switch above the tipple and an outlet below.
Typically, empties rolled by gravity from the delivery
tracks down to the tipple tracks for loading, then down to
the outlet tracks. <br>
<br>
Especially on the East End, significant grades were a
constant for every job, so the (one) engine was dispatched
running forward if there was a turn on the run, otherwise it
was dispatched facing upgrade. Some runs took all of their
empties, others some or none, and picked them up along the
way at storage points where mainline runs had set off
empties and picked up loads the previous night. And picking
up their empties could vary day to day, by location, by the
numbers, and from one extreme to the other.<br>
<br>
At various points, the engine could be pulling empties or
shoving them ahead, depending on run-around opportunities
and switch arrangements ahead. Loads stayed next to the
engine and could be on both ends. The crew would have the
adjacent main track for however much time, pending superior
movements. Even branchline shifters had a passenger run to
consider. For example, your North Fork job routinely made <b>three</b>
different runs up the branch per shift because of a mix of
facing- and trailing-point moves at various tipples that
totaled a million tons per year, and all while dodging the
passenger run.<br>
<br>
Then there was the nearby Keystone tipple on the main line
that rated almost a million tons a year by itself. Seems
easier than the North Fork Branch, except that the tipple
was jammed into a bend in the hollow such that the delivery
track capacity was only about 35 cars. Every local job in
the area was on call to work it, including the North Fork
Branch passenger job between runs. Picture a Class M working
a huge tipple on the main line. In 1950.<br>
<br>
And this was just in the Greater Northfork area of special
interest to you. The variety that makes Pocahontas Division
operations difficult to characterize in broad
generalizations is what can make it so interesting to model.
On multiple levels, no two jobs were the same and no two
days were the same. So answers to many questions may depend
on specific jobs and/or locations. Ask away and we will
answer best we can (soon as we can). More to come.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/17/2025 4:14 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Jim,
<div>During my era of dispatching, the type of moves
really varied from one coal operation to the next. We
typically referred to the mine runs as “shifters”. A
“turn crew” was usually a mainline crew that was
designated as a “one day job” which meant that
regardless of where they went on a train or in a taxi
they would terminate back in their original home
terminal at the end of their shift.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the directional status of locomotives,
during my career the setup of a consist to have a short
hood in each direction became more and more an
expectation. I didn’t have too many mine operations
that were worked with a single locomotive in a
traditional “deliver empties then pull loads” operating
plan. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the operations where this was the case, most crews
would choose to handle empties with long hood lead and
the much heavier loads coming back out with short hood
lead on their engine for better visibility. If the
operation happened to be near a “wye”, it was not
uncommon to turn the engine after delivering empties
before pulling the loads to maintain a short hood lead
for any move where they were handling cars. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My guess is that turning the engine like this was
much less prevalent in the eras of steam and high hood
diesels with dual controls. I’m interested in what
Grant’s input will be on this for the steam era. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank Ya’n Out,</div>
<div>Chris Dalton </div>
<div>Bluefield, WV
<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 17, 2025, at 11:26 AM, NW
Mailing List wrote:</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">Jim,</div>
<div dir="auto">Only one engine. If there was no way
to turn the engine for the return trip, the engine
ran backwards out of the terminal.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Jimmy Lisle</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div align="left" dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>Date: 11/17/25 9:07 AM</div>
<div>Subject: loco motions</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">If I am remembering
correctly the things I have read heard in the
past indicate that a mine servicing run (was
this called a turn?) in the part of the Pokey in
which I am most interested, would begin with a
train comprising a string of empty hoppers
sandwiched between a couple locomotives, one of
which was facing West while the other faced
East. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">From my meager
understanding, there were two typical track
arrangements for tipple sidings. They both began
with a turnout off the main line followed by
additional turnouts whose number varied
according to things like the number of sized of
coal produced, storage track configuration,
run-around track, re-connection to the main,
etc. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">In one example, a
coal operation would have only one turnout on
the main. This would necessitate one of
locomotives with a cut of empties to cut off
from the rest of the (?turn/job/movement?) and
move the empties into the mine trackage. Did the
rest of the train remain on the main in the rain
blocking other traffic? Also, was there a
preference for whether the servicing unit
proceeded moving forward or in reverse for this
part of the operation? If there were no
run-around track at the mine, the locomotive
would have to push his empties past the tipple
for gravity feeding purposes, cut them loose
after sufficient brakes had been set, move back
down to where this mine's loads had been stored,
couple up, move this string down to the main,
reattach to the rest of the turn and move on
down to the next operation.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">This account contains
much conjecture on my part, and my purpose is to
learn how things really worked such as when
those locomotives were run forward and when they
ran in reverse along with other specifics of the
operations along my most beloved portion of the
Pokey.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">If this is of
interest to others or I get response (Grant,
hint, hint), I will follow up with additional
questions and conjecture.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">Jim Cochran</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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