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Jim,<br>
<br>
Yes, movements with more than a two-man engine crew (ie, a pusher)
rated a caboose.<br>
<br>
Careful, setoffs and pickups could be made at any storage point, <u>some</u>
of which were terminals. Storage tracks were just that – track.
Terminals included storage tracks, but also were where runs
originated and terminated, thus they included facilities for engine
service, a yard office, a call office, crew lounge, etc. <br>
<br>
So Byrd Yard was not a terminal, that would be Eckman Yard until it
closed. The North Fork Hollow Mine Run was moved to Bluefield,
became First Vivian or V1, and would depart Bluefield with a 2000
running in reverse, most times light with the caboose on the pilot.<br>
<br>
An Elkhorn crew would bring about 110 empties to North Fork and back
them into the two storage tracks, Elk Ridge and North Fork. The
engine was turned at Eckman, met a pusher, and took east loads from
there back to Bluefield. Byrd Yard was used mostly to store empties
for Keystone, being on the same side of the main and just up from
the delivery switch.<br>
<br>
By setting off empties in one direction and picking up loads in the
other, these mainline crews avoided mixed trains that would slow
operations in a tight time frame. This is why it was so important
that mine runs block their loads by direction when setting them out
for pickup by the Elkhorn and River crews.<br>
<br>
Okay, I'll stop, and limit the drifting. Something approaching an
overview on this topic was published in <i>The Arrow</i> with Glenn
Fisher's "High Noon" series, but doesn't include some details here,
given the context. As always, feel free to ask more questions.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/25/2025 8:47 AM, NW Mailing List
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.12492.1764082556.722595.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">OK, so an Elkhorn job takes off from Bluefield with
a 21 hunnert and a big string of empty hoppers (caboose yes?)
headed West. This movement drops off empties where needed (did
it pick up any loads while setting off at the terminals?) and
finally has no more empties and returns to Bluefield? So this
is how empties would have gotten to Byrd yard (a terminal?)
ready for distribution up North Fork holler. Bet a buck you can
anticipate my next series of questions. Well since you left the
North Fork branch for me to model, I need to do it properly :^)
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at
3:21 PM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Jim,<br>
<br>
The Bluefield pool job was referred to as just "Elkhorn" or
"Elkhorn man/job/run/crew." Motive power was one 2100 with
empties or running light, with a cab and road crew of five.
If there were two engines, one was a Pocahontas Pool pusher
with a two-man crew, and both were dispatched facing in the
same direction and running light to go pick up east loads.<br>
<br>
In similar fashion, the Tug River Pool job out of Williamson
was referred to as "River," as well as the pusher pool. They
were dispatched with empties or east loads, and sported
auxiliary tenders.<br>
<br>
A clarification, terminals on the District where crews were
based and runs originated in the 1950s included Weller Yard,
Auville Yard, Eckman Yard and Wilcoe Yard. The terminal at
Eckman closed in 1951 and Wilcoe closed for the latter half
of the 1950s.<br>
<br>
These pool jobs could set off and pick up by trailing-point
moves at designated storage points listed earlier, but
tipples were left to the six-man mine runs. If needed, a
pool run could, for example, deliver a tipple, and then put
in for extra pay.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/24/2025 6:09 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Grant,
<div>Should I forget to say it explicitly in any of my
messages, know that I am always grateful to you for
sharing your knowledge. OK, it is the start of a
normal working day in the mid 1950s in Bluefield. A
"pool" run (was that how they were referred to?) is
assembled with a long string of empties bookended by
power. Was the power Ys? Were there 2? Was one
running in reverse? Since I assume most pool yards
had two switches off the main, what was the reason for
using locomotives with opposite facings?</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 24, 2025
at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Jim,<br>
<br>
That's right, there was a pool of road crews based
in each main terminal, Elkhorn Pool in Bluefield and
Tug River Pool in Williamson, that hauled empties
(when available) to storage points and returned with
loads from storage points. Mine runs only had to
move empties and loads between tipples and the
nearest storage point. Those points on the main line
from Bluefield west to Iaeger included: Mullins
Middle, Flat Top Yard, Bluestone (River Track),
Angle Branch, Morgan Storage, North Fork Hollow/Elk
Ridge Storage, Byrd Yard, Eckman Yard, Vivian
(Kimball Yard), Cirrus Storage, Huger Middle,
Superior #3 Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage,
Caples Outlet, Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage,
Claren Storage and Hull Middle (the limit of Elkhorn
crews). Branchline yards served by pool runs
included Clift, Wilcoe and Auville. <br>
<br>
As I mentioned earlier, operation limits, variations
and exceptions were typical; however, to your last
point, I agree it is a good idea to limit my posts
to the specific questions and limit details, so feel
free to follow up.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Grant et al.
<div>Thank you so much for your responses, I
will keep asking as long as you keep answering
:-)</div>
<div>From the Pokey's point of view, empties
magically appeared in huge strings at
Bluefield and Williamson, and needed to be
distributed to every mining operation. What I
think I just put together from Grant's
response (please correct me on
anything/everything) is there was a
distribution hierarchy of runs to keep
everyone supplied. Those big "mainline" runs
that I started with in my first post, would
start their runs "all empty" and set off cuts
at what I will call distribution points
(yards) while picking up loads from these
large holding facilities. The ones that come
to my mind are Flat Top, Cliff, Byrd, Eckman,
Vivian/Kimball, and I get foggier as I go West
of my primary area of interest. Mike you
probably know the ones around Iaeger, so
please chime in. Is there a comprehensive
list? The mainline run would, at some point
have set off all its empties and picked up a
full train of loads and head back to its
terminal of origin be it Bluefield or
Williamson. How am I doing so far? I am
going to keep my posts somewhat short so as to
try to concentrate on a limited aspect at a
time to help keep things straight, at least
for me.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
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