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Hello Jim,<br>
<br>
There were six to ten crews assigned to the Elkhorn Pool out of
Bluefield. They rotated first-in, first-out with eight hours of
rest. They handled full-length mainline trains, that was 80 loads
eastbound upgrade, which required a 2100 and a pusher. <br>
<br>
Specifically, the Elkhorn run to North Fork left Bluefield running
forward with empties behind and a cab on the rear. A clarification
from earlier where I stated this job would turn on the table at
Eckman and pickup east loads there for the return trip to Bluefield:
Farm became the turning point when the Eckman table was taken out of
service. If so, this crew continued west, possibly picking up <u>east</u> loads
along the WB main, turned, filled out tonnage at some point, met a
pusher, and started back to Bluefield.<br>
<br>
Depending on the date, they called the operator or the dispatcher to
unlock the switch at the branch junction with the WB main. Extra
movements would have to register on, so the box should have been
near that switch.<br>
<br>
If you are still referring to the Elkhorn crew, it was a
trailing-point move to back empties into the Elk Ridge Storage
track, yes, formally the oven track, then into the North Fork
Storage track, formally the main track before a new main track was
laid next to it. They would not have delivered Algoma – that was
first on the mine run's agenda.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/27/2025 7:10 PM, NW Mailing List
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.12563.1764330664.722595.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hope everyone is full of turkey and pie and got at
least one nap this afternoon,
<div>Had I been and engineer in Bluefield assigned to the
Elkhorn pool (were crew assigned to the pools?), and drew the
North Fork run, what class loco would I have had under me (a
2000?). Would I be running forward or reverse? Would the
empties be in front of me or behind me? Would there be a cab,
and if so, where?</div>
<div>When I get to North Fork, do I need to sign the book
showing I am occupying the branch, and if so, where was the
book kept (in the station?)? After being cleared for the
branch, and depending upon the loco's facing, I would start to
either push or pull those empties around the hill where the
Elk Ridge coke ovens used to be and head up the holler to make
my first drop off at Algoma?</div>
<div>Can I pack any more questions into one short message, time
will tell,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at
6:22 AM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> James,<br>
<br>
To tie up some dangling ends in my reply, empties for your
North Fork Branch were delivered by a dedicated Elkhorn run
– a bit unusual, but an indication of the tonnage coming
down that short hollow. The east loads went to Eckman, but
the west loads were left on the North Fork storage tracks
for a River crew to pick up trailing-point that night, soon
followed by the Elkhorn crew with empties to set off.<br>
<br>
Great questions! Thanks for asking and for patience with my
replies. Great topic worthy of your modeling skills, we love
this stuff, so now get to work.<br>
<br>
Happy Thanksgiving to you and All,<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<div>On 11/25/2025 7:11 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Jim,<br>
<br>
Yes, movements with more than a two-man engine crew (ie, a
pusher) rated a caboose.<br>
<br>
Careful, setoffs and pickups could be made at any storage
point, <u>some</u> of which were terminals. Storage
tracks were just that – track. Terminals included storage
tracks, but also were where runs originated and
terminated, thus they included facilities for engine
service, a yard office, a call office, crew lounge, etc. <br>
<br>
So Byrd Yard was not a terminal, that would be Eckman Yard
until it closed. The North Fork Hollow Mine Run was moved
to Bluefield, became First Vivian or V1, and would depart
Bluefield with a 2000 running in reverse, most times light
with the caboose on the pilot.<br>
<br>
An Elkhorn crew would bring about 110 empties to North
Fork and back them into the two storage tracks, Elk Ridge
and North Fork. The engine was turned at Eckman, met a
pusher, and took east loads from there back to Bluefield.
Byrd Yard was used mostly to store empties for Keystone,
being on the same side of the main and just up from the
delivery switch.<br>
<br>
By setting off empties in one direction and picking up
loads in the other, these mainline crews avoided mixed
trains that would slow operations in a tight time frame.
This is why it was so important that mine runs block their
loads by direction when setting them out for pickup by the
Elkhorn and River crews.<br>
<br>
Okay, I'll stop, and limit the drifting. Something
approaching an overview on this topic was published in <i>The
Arrow</i> with Glenn Fisher's "High Noon" series, but
doesn't include some details here, given the context. As
always, feel free to ask more questions.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/25/2025 8:47 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">OK, so an Elkhorn job takes off from
Bluefield with a 21 hunnert and a big string of empty
hoppers (caboose yes?) headed West. This movement
drops off empties where needed (did it pick up any
loads while setting off at the terminals?) and finally
has no more empties and returns to Bluefield? So this
is how empties would have gotten to Byrd yard (a
terminal?) ready for distribution up North Fork
holler. Bet a buck you can anticipate my next series
of questions. Well since you left the North Fork
branch for me to model, I need to do it properly :^)
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 24, 2025
at 3:21 PM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Jim,<br>
<br>
The Bluefield pool job was referred to as just
"Elkhorn" or "Elkhorn man/job/run/crew." Motive
power was one 2100 with empties or running light,
with a cab and road crew of five. If there were
two engines, one was a Pocahontas Pool pusher with
a two-man crew, and both were dispatched facing in
the same direction and running light to go pick up
east loads.<br>
<br>
In similar fashion, the Tug River Pool job out of
Williamson was referred to as "River," as well as
the pusher pool. They were dispatched with empties
or east loads, and sported auxiliary tenders.<br>
<br>
A clarification, terminals on the District where
crews were based and runs originated in the 1950s
included Weller Yard, Auville Yard, Eckman Yard
and Wilcoe Yard. The terminal at Eckman closed in
1951 and Wilcoe closed for the latter half of the
1950s.<br>
<br>
These pool jobs could set off and pick up by
trailing-point moves at designated storage points
listed earlier, but tipples were left to the
six-man mine runs. If needed, a pool run could,
for example, deliver a tipple, and then put in for
extra pay.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/24/2025 6:09 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Grant,
<div>Should I forget to say it explicitly in
any of my messages, know that I am always
grateful to you for sharing your knowledge.
OK, it is the start of a normal working day
in the mid 1950s in Bluefield. A "pool" run
(was that how they were referred to?) is
assembled with a long string of empties
bookended by power. Was the power Ys? Were
there 2? Was one running in reverse? Since
I assume most pool yards had two switches
off the main, what was the reason for using
locomotives with opposite facings?</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov
24, 2025 at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Jim,<br>
<br>
That's right, there was a pool of road
crews based in each main terminal, Elkhorn
Pool in Bluefield and Tug River Pool in
Williamson, that hauled empties (when
available) to storage points and returned
with loads from storage points. Mine runs
only had to move empties and loads between
tipples and the nearest storage point.
Those points on the main line from
Bluefield west to Iaeger included: Mullins
Middle, Flat Top Yard, Bluestone (River
Track), Angle Branch, Morgan Storage,
North Fork Hollow/Elk Ridge Storage, Byrd
Yard, Eckman Yard, Vivian (Kimball Yard),
Cirrus Storage, Huger Middle, Superior #3
Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage, Caples
Outlet, Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage,
Claren Storage and Hull Middle (the limit
of Elkhorn crews). Branchline yards served
by pool runs included Clift, Wilcoe and
Auville. <br>
<br>
As I mentioned earlier, operation limits,
variations and exceptions were typical;
however, to your last point, I agree it is
a good idea to limit my posts to the
specific questions and limit details, so
feel free to follow up.<br>
<br>
Grant Carpenter<br>
<br>
<div>On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing
List wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Grant et al.
<div>Thank you so much for your
responses, I will keep asking as
long as you keep answering :-)</div>
<div>From the Pokey's point of view,
empties magically appeared in huge
strings at Bluefield and Williamson,
and needed to be distributed to
every mining operation. What I
think I just put together from
Grant's response (please correct me
on anything/everything) is there was
a distribution hierarchy of runs to
keep everyone supplied. Those big
"mainline" runs that I started with
in my first post, would start their
runs "all empty" and set off cuts at
what I will call distribution points
(yards) while picking up loads from
these large holding facilities. The
ones that come to my mind are Flat
Top, Cliff, Byrd, Eckman,
Vivian/Kimball, and I get foggier as
I go West of my primary area of
interest. Mike you probably know
the ones around Iaeger, so please
chime in. Is there a comprehensive
list? The mainline run would, at
some point have set off all its
empties and picked up a full train
of loads and head back to its
terminal of origin be it Bluefield
or Williamson. How am I doing so
far? I am going to keep my posts
somewhat short so as to try to
concentrate on a limited aspect at a
time to help keep things straight,
at least for me.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Jim Cochran</div>
</div>
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