[WASTE-list] Next update?

[Ryan Joseph]

Marco,

Thank you coming out and saying this finally. Apple engineers have  
decided they have the newest and coolest language in the world now and  
aren't willing to support 2 frameworks (this was too much ask I feel).  
I was using WASTE from the Free Pascal Compiler and Object Pascal so  
this caused me serious grief including making a Pascal wrapper to the  
entire Cocoa framework which took 2 solid months! There was nothing  
really wrong in particular with Carbon except Apple was not willing to  
update it and make it competitive to Cocoa, especially with the  
browsers and text editing. It makes me cringe to think when the next  
generation of Apple engineers come along and decide Cocoa is not the  
future and they want to see their own pet project in the main  
stream... I think about the time Marco started WASTE Apple was using  
MacApp which was written in their custom model of Object Pascal so  
that's proof this will happen again.

With WASTE gone there is nothing comparable to NSTextView and I would  
recommend anyone to move your code as soon as possible. There were  
some drawing bugs with HICocoaView's and they can only be added to the  
root view of the window which complicated windows with hidden text  
views (like in a tabs) but on the whole it's worked well. I would also  
like to note to users that NSTextView offered many improvements over  
WASTE (speed in particular) and it was rewarding to add some  
functionality to my editor, but still hardly worth the terrible amount  
of work.

Thank you again Marco and good luck to everyone.

On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Marco Piovanelli wrote:


> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 12:03:04 +0700,

> Ryan Joseph (thealchemistguild at gmail.com) wrote:

>

>

>> I think it would be wise for you to pull WASTE asap because it's

>> virtually inevitable you will run into a problem which won't be fixed

>> and ultimately jeopardize your project. Using NSTextView in an

>> HICocoaView is the Carbon solution unless the more limited MLTE will

>> work. My overhaul was a totally nightmare (still going) but the end

>> result is a much more powerful and flexible API.

>>

>> I'm sorry to advocate anti-WASTE and the mail list but I don't want  

>> to

>> see people get stuck in the same mess I did. The writings on the  

>> wall,

>> Apple is not supporting Carbon and NSTextView is simply better than

>> WASTE, if you can stomach all the Objective-C. Sadly there's no place

>> for WASTE anymore and I think that's prompted the halt in  

>> development,

>> which makes perfect sense.

>

> Ryan is right.  Carbon is a dead-end.  It has been for several years

> now, but Apple made this clear at WWDC 2007, when they reluctantly

> conceded that the promised 64-bit version of Carbon (which had been

> in the works for a good while, and was almost ready for prime time)

> had been killed.  Cocoa is simply a superior choice for UI work, and

> the Cocoa text framework is at least an order of magnitude better

> than anything to ever come out of the Carbon camp, including WASTE.

>

> At this point, it makes no economic sense to continue development

> of WASTE 3.0.  As for projects still using WASTE, my impression is

> that Apple will eventually pull the rug from under them, by finally

> removing Carbon altogether from OS X.  Snow Leopard is clearly heading

> in this direction.

>

> A year ago, I had hoped to have time for one last bug-fix release

> of WASTE 3.0, but it's been my busiest year since I started writing

> software for Apple OSes in the early 90s, and the first year in

> which more than 90% of the code I wrote was Objective-C (for the

> iPhone OS, in case you wonder).  Coming from a mostly C++ background,

> I still love C++ and the STL, but I have to admit Objective-C is

> more productive, especially when coupled with a very well thought-out

> framework like Cocoa.  But I'm sure you've all heard similar  

> assessments

> ad nauseam.

>

> So yes, to put it bluntly, WASTE is dead, and I encourage everyone

> still using it to move on to anything whose foundations have more

> chances of not being dropped by Apple.

>

> In closing, I'd like to thank everybody who contributed to the WASTE

> project in the past 15 years or so, by adopting it, reporting bugs,

> suggesting improvements, contributing code, and generally encouraging

> me to keep going.

>

>

>                                            -- marco

>

>

>

>


Regards,
	Josef

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