EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

Tue Sep 29 09:54:17 EDT 2020

Wow, Dave:

Those hoppers look outstanding!

And, I appreciate your perspective.  Celebrate on!

-Eric

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 16:42
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

I understand and agree that people have different interests. Someone who likes to develop decals in advanced graphics software might look at a metal worker's Sherline lathe and say 'great, hope you enjoy it, but it's not for everyone." At some level "model railroading" is an onion where each skill is a layer.  Peel each skill away (software, 3-D printing, decal printing, dcc, electronics, soldering, metal work, styrene and/or resin work, wood working, painting, historical research) and pretty soon you have nothing left.  We need to celebrate how many facets of the hobby exist to allow others to join!

I'm an experimenter, so I've enjoyed learning woodwork (staining and kit construction, benchwork), soldering (electronics types to add DCC, resistance to build/repair brass), painting (cars, locos, even backdrops with airbrushes and with bristles and even sponges), resin and styrene kit building and bashing, a little bit of metal work (mostly wire bending, drilling holes, brass detail forming), and drafting (using my Dad's engineering drafting tools, then using CAD), and historical research (visits to the National Archives & Records Administration to obtain ICC valuation records and maps).   I can tell you, like Marty with decals, that I have had challenges in metal work in obtaining machining tolerances, and would rather pay someone else to do that.  But I can say that confidently after having tried to remotor some brass locomotives myself.  My daughter's pre-school had a rule that may apply here: you don't have to eat something, but only after you take a "thank you bite."  I think that applies to the various facets of the hobby too.

I don't know if the surnames have anything to do with it, but I too have followed Eric Bott's (no relation) route and designed my own graphics and had HighBall Graphics print them.  Then I went one step further and bought some "Ghost White" toner for my laser printer and printed my own to add custom numbers to the recent Bowser HL hoppers (see attached), since the decals were delayed.    I've given a clinic on the Ghost White toner at RPM meets before the pandemic.   It is not for everyone, that is true.  But it can be fun.  I run the loop of track on plywood when it comes to metal work, but I still enjoy a presentation by machinists scratchbuilding scale locomotives, because I took my "thank you bite" of the skill and now I appreciate what they do all the more.

Dave Bott

Friday, September 25, 2020, 5:43:29 PM, you wrote:

I've made my own signs, that I just print on regular or photo paper, cut out, and glue onto projects, usually buildings, occasionally rolling stock.  I either download or scan an image that I want, or create a simple sign using Microsoft Word, then resize it in Word to the actual size needed (1" x 2" for example).  I've only tried do it yourself decals once, with a system designed to print on an inkjet and then overlay with a spray, but the ink still bled a little, and I haven't looked at it much since.

I guess my thoughts on these graphics programs a lot of custom decal companies want is similar to my thoughts on using CAD programs to design your layout: Do you want your hobby to be learning how to use this software, or model railroading?  For the people who already have the technical background or take the time to learn, I say great, hope you enjoy it, but it's not for everyone.  I work in a model train store and we have been having similar discussions about DCC programming.  We have one employee in particular who loves messing with computers and he has a hard time understanding why someone using DCC wouldn't want to learn JMRI and all the different CV values you can change with your DCC system.  Another example is a reply from one of the model train magazine editors about a comment we sent, in which he said he couldn't conceive of editing a magazine article tailored towards someone with only a loop of EZ-Track on plywood.  My point is we all have our strengths and weaknesses in this hobby (wiring doesn't scare me, but I don't even want to look at a pile of lumber and an electric saw), and for most of us, there will always be certain aspects of the hobby, such as computer programs for 3D printing, custom decals, etc..., where we are still very much running a loop of track with all of our DCC addresses still on 3.

I've made extensive use of Shellscale's decals for N&W and NS passenger cars, and am looking forward to the steam engine set, both for new/delayed projects and upgrading finished models.

Marty Flick
-----------------------------------------
From: "NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List"
To: "NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List"
Cc: "NW Modeling List"
Sent: Friday September 25 2020 1:03:40PM
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

Eric,

Very impressive decals. I noticed the CM cabooses had virtually no visible film. Unfortunately I often have trouble obtaining and sending my emails so the idea of using that program to make any needed decals would never work for me. My computer skills are almost nil.

Sure wish you could print decals for others as you stated about MS wanting 200 sheets. Everyone talks about how they make their own signs and decals on their home printers but it's over my head.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works

On Friday, September 25, 2020, 10:45:11 AM CDT, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

I’d like to inject a completely new line of discussion into this Decals thread…

I’ve been making my own decals now for about 2 years.  I’ve done sets for 350 different projects, although I’ve only managed to pump about 95 projects through my painters.so far.  Jim Abbott at Highball Graphics (https://highballgraphics.com/) does all my printing; I do all my own artwork, although I do make a lot of use of Railfont’s products (www.railfonts.com<http://www.railfonts.com>).  Jim requires that all artwork be done in Corel Draw.  This is very expensive in the full commercial license version, but can be found in the academic version (without commercial rights) very reasonably.  The learning curve on Corel is absolutely fierce, but the capabilities are absolutely amazing.

Everybody in the Society could be making their own custom decals for whatever projects they want, not waiting more than a week or so for turnaround.

I’ve attached a few .jpgs so folks can see some of what’s possible.  These end up being much lower resolution than the decals; I routinely make magnifying glass-readable builders plates (with correct builder’s numbers and build dates for the specific road number I’m modeling), many of which you can see in up-scales sizes on the “Logos” sheet.  The “Logos” sheet is intended to show what kinds of artwork Corel enables and Highball can print.  The “Sumpter Valley” sheet is one of my recent project sheets that include a number of specific projects, some decal test prints to verify sizing of some critical dimensions, and some test prints for color matching once the decals are laid on specific paint colors.  (Yeah, I know, my interests are literally all over the map.)  The models shown are all done with my decals.  See if you think the capability to do these things, whenever you need them done, feels attractive.  The printed decals are sharper than Microscale’s screen printed decals (these are all laser printed for the 5-color decals, ALPS printed for gold and silver decals), but they are printed on Microscale’s excellent paper—decals are very thin-film.  Highball prints a 5-color, 8.5” x 11” (7.5” x 10” printable) sheet for $35, or a gold or silver 8.5” x 11” (7.5” x 9.5” printable) sheet for $40.  Shipping is $4, no matter how many sheets you order at a time.  Here’s the best part:  Highball does not have any minimum order, other than a half-sheet at a time, whereas Microscale’s minimum is, last time I checked, 200 identical decal sets.

I’ll note that I’ve bought bunches of Bill Moesteller’s VGN decals, and they are excellent.  I did the VGN ones on the “Sumpter Valley” sheet because I hate asking my painters to piece together road numbers, and because Bill’s EL sets don’t include the white “SAFETY FIRST” lettering on the front of the units under the cab.  When I’m trying to duplicate what I see in a specific photo, commercially available sets often just don’t do what I want.

No, I do not want to do this kind of work commercially.

I could, if there’s interest, give a presentation to Society members via Zoom on how to get started in doing all this for yourselves.  I would need somebody in the Society to set up the Zoom session for however many folks are interested.

I’m not trying to deflate the Society’s market for the cool decals that are being considered.  But no matter how zealous the Society gets in producing these things, they just will not cover everybody’s interests, and they will rarely print exactly the road numbers everybody wants, meaning that they will still be left piecing together road numbers for headlights, domes, cabs, etc.  There is no need to put up with any such issues.

-Eric Bott

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 20:22
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Cc: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

The Spirit of Roanoke lettering shouldn't take up much room either. Is that the only thing added to the latest incarnation of the 611?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works

On Thursday, September 24, 2020, 08:12:22 PM CDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

What a great set of decals this is going to be.  Please announce them as soon as we can pre-order them.
Walter Davis, Youngsville, NC
On 9/24/2020 12:57 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List wrote:

Actually this set has been slowly brewing for quite some time. Years ago I purchased the art that Roanoke Rails used to produce their J set. Ken and I have been gathering information for years.
I am paying close attention to the comments to see what is needed in addition to the obvious lettering. Again, Ken and I have worked on many prototype lettering projects including cabooses, freight cars, passenger cars, and locomotives, both diesel and steam. The Class J number 611 is probably our most famous project.
Small items like class plates don't take much space so there should be plenty of those.
As previously stated, The Spirit of Roanoke lettering will not be included in this set. The era of this set will be up to 1959.
The set will be offered in HO, N, and O Scale.
Richard D. Shell
ShellScale Decals

________________________________
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
And there are those worms I was worrying about.  LOL.  You will notice I did not mention the current excursion lettering in my original post, so you can guess how I feel about it.  Even the items I mentioned from the 90's are very limiting, the Forgive Them Lord sticker only being on her for a few hours.

Seriously though, I'm mostly just trying to encourage conversation and feedback for what people are interested in for the set.  Unless I misunderstood, this is not a set that is already in development but is essentially starting new right now, and both representatives from Shellscale and NWHS who are working on the decal are partaking in this conversation.  This seems an excellent opportunity for anyone with interest in this set to speak up about something they would like to see, even if it doesn't make it onto the final decal set.  So if there is some data or lettering size that hasn't been done right or available at all in the past, now is the time to comment.

Regardless, sounds like it is going to be a great and much welcomed set.

Now if only we could get an accurate set for NRHS and other excursion cars... ;)

Marty Flick
-----------------------------------------
From: "NW Modeling List"
To: "NW Modeling List"
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday September 23 2020 12:18:51PM
Subject: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

Jim:

Richard Shell and I both despise the “phrase” under the cab for its historical inaccuracy, and we both agree it will not be part of any set we do.

Ken Miller

> On Sep 23, 2020, at 8:56 AM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org><mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> My two cents is the excursion stuff should not be included in the set; I'd prefer a historically accurate set for steam era service. I would imagine VMT or whoever owns 611 would want some money in exchange for using their marketing phrase.
>
> Jim Brewer

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David Bott
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