EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

Tue Sep 29 12:50:19 EDT 2020

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 10:42 AM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> Wow, Dave:
>
>
>
> Those hoppers look outstanding!
>
>
>
> And, I appreciate your perspective.  Celebrate on!
>
>
>
> -Eric
>
>
>
I agree! Very nice work!!

Mike True

*From:* NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> *On Behalf Of *NW
> Modeling List
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2020 16:42
> *To:* NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)
>
>
>
> I understand and agree that people have different interests. Someone who
> likes to develop decals in advanced graphics software might look at a metal
> worker's Sherline lathe and say 'great, hope you enjoy it, but it's not for
> everyone." At some level "model railroading" is an onion where each skill
> is a layer.  Peel each skill away (software, 3-D printing, decal printing,
> dcc, electronics, soldering, metal work, styrene and/or resin work, wood
> working, painting, historical research) and pretty soon you have nothing
> left.  We need to celebrate how many facets of the hobby exist to allow
> others to join!
>
> I'm an experimenter, so I've enjoyed learning woodwork (staining and kit
> construction, benchwork), soldering (electronics types to add DCC,
> resistance to build/repair brass), painting (cars, locos, even backdrops
> with airbrushes and with bristles and even sponges), resin and styrene kit
> building and bashing, a little bit of metal work (mostly wire bending,
> drilling holes, brass detail forming), and drafting (using my Dad's
> engineering drafting tools, then using CAD), and historical research
> (visits to the National Archives & Records Administration to obtain ICC
> valuation records and maps).   I can tell you, like Marty with decals, that
> I have had challenges in metal work in obtaining machining tolerances, and
> would rather pay someone else to do that.  But I can say that confidently
> after having tried to remotor some brass locomotives myself.  My daughter's
> pre-school had a rule that may apply here: you don't have to eat something,
> but only after you take a "thank you bite."  I think that applies to the
> various facets of the hobby too.
>
> I don't know if the surnames have anything to do with it, but I too have
> followed Eric Bott's (no relation) route and designed my own graphics and
> had HighBall Graphics print them.  Then I went one step further and bought
> some "Ghost White" toner for my laser printer and printed my own to add
> custom numbers to the recent Bowser HL hoppers (see attached), since the
> decals were delayed.    I've given a clinic on the Ghost White toner at RPM
> meets before the pandemic.   It is not for everyone, that is true.  But it
> can be fun.  I run the loop of track on plywood when it comes to metal
> work, but I still enjoy a presentation by machinists scratchbuilding scale
> locomotives, because I took my "thank you bite" of the skill and now I
> appreciate what they do all the more.
>
> Dave Bott
>
> Friday, September 25, 2020, 5:43:29 PM, you wrote:
>
> I've made my own signs, that I just print on regular or photo paper, cut
> out, and glue onto projects, usually buildings, occasionally rolling
> stock.  I either download or scan an image that I want, or create a simple
> sign using Microsoft Word, then resize it in Word to the actual size needed
> (1" x 2" for example).  I've only tried do it yourself decals once, with a
> system designed to print on an inkjet and then overlay with a spray, but
> the ink still bled a little, and I haven't looked at it much since.
>
> I guess my thoughts on these graphics programs a lot of custom decal
> companies want is similar to my thoughts on using CAD programs to design
> your layout: Do you want your hobby to be learning how to use this
> software, or model railroading?  For the people who already have the
> technical background or take the time to learn, I say great, hope you enjoy
> it, but it's not for everyone.  I work in a model train store and we have
> been having similar discussions about DCC programming.  We have one
> employee in particular who loves messing with computers and he has a hard
> time understanding why someone using DCC wouldn't want to learn JMRI and
> all the different CV values you can change with your DCC system.  Another
> example is a reply from one of the model train magazine editors about a
> comment we sent, in which he said he couldn't conceive of editing a
> magazine article tailored towards someone with only a loop of EZ-Track on
> plywood.  My point is we all have our strengths and weaknesses in this
> hobby (wiring doesn't scare me, but I don't even want to look at a pile of
> lumber and an electric saw), and for most of us, there will always be
> certain aspects of the hobby, such as computer programs for 3D printing,
> custom decals, etc..., where we are still very much running a loop of track
> with all of our DCC addresses still on 3.
>
> I've made extensive use of Shellscale's decals for N&W and NS passenger
> cars, and am looking forward to the steam engine set, both for new/delayed
> projects and upgrading finished models.
>
> Marty Flick
> -----------------------------------------
> From: "NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List"
> To: "NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List"
> Cc: "NW Modeling List"
> Sent: Friday September 25 2020 1:03:40PM
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)
>
> Eric,
>
> Very impressive decals. I noticed the CM cabooses had virtually no visible
> film. Unfortunately I often have trouble obtaining and sending my emails so
> the idea of using that program to make any needed decals would never work
> for me. My computer skills are almost nil.
>
> Sure wish you could print decals for others as you stated about MS wanting
> 200 sheets. Everyone talks about how they make their own signs and decals
> on their home printers but it's over my head.
>
> Roger Huber
> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
>
>
> On Friday, September 25, 2020, 10:45:11 AM CDT, NW Modeling List via
> NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> I’d like to inject a completely new line of discussion into this Decals
> thread…
>
> I’ve been making my own decals now for about 2 years.  I’ve done sets for
> 350 different projects, although I’ve only managed to pump about 95
> projects through my painters.so far.  Jim Abbott at Highball Graphics (
> https://highballgraphics.com/) does all my printing; I do all my own
> artwork, although I do make a lot of use of Railfont’s products (
> www.railfonts.com).  Jim requires that all artwork be done in Corel
> Draw.  This is very expensive in the full commercial license version, but
> can be found in the academic version (without commercial rights) very
> reasonably.  The learning curve on Corel is absolutely fierce, but the
> capabilities are absolutely amazing.
>
> Everybody in the Society could be making their own custom decals for
> whatever projects they want, not waiting more than a week or so for
> turnaround.
>
> I’ve attached a few .jpgs so folks can see some of what’s possible.  These
> end up being much lower resolution than the decals; I routinely make
> magnifying glass-readable builders plates (with correct builder’s numbers
> and build dates for the specific road number I’m modeling), many of which
> you can see in up-scales sizes on the “Logos” sheet.  The “Logos” sheet is
> intended to show what kinds of artwork Corel enables and Highball can
> print.  The “Sumpter Valley” sheet is one of my recent project sheets that
> include a number of specific projects, some decal test prints to verify
> sizing of some critical dimensions, and some test prints for color matching
> once the decals are laid on specific paint colors.  (Yeah, I know, my
> interests are literally all over the map.)  The models shown are all done
> with my decals.  See if you think the capability to do these things,
> whenever you need them done, feels attractive.  The printed decals are
> sharper than Microscale’s screen printed decals (these are all laser
> printed for the 5-color decals, ALPS printed for gold and silver decals),
> but they are printed on Microscale’s excellent paper—decals are very
> thin-film.  Highball prints a 5-color, 8.5” x 11” (7.5” x 10” printable)
> sheet for $35, or a gold or silver 8.5” x 11” (7.5” x 9.5” printable) sheet
> for $40.  Shipping is $4, no matter how many sheets you order at a time.
> Here’s the best part:  Highball does not have any minimum order, other than
> a half-sheet at a time, whereas Microscale’s minimum is, last time I
> checked, 200 identical decal sets.
>
> I’ll note that I’ve bought bunches of Bill Moesteller’s VGN decals, and
> they are excellent.  I did the VGN ones on the “Sumpter Valley” sheet
> because I hate asking my painters to piece together road numbers, and
> because Bill’s EL sets don’t include the white “SAFETY FIRST” lettering on
> the front of the units under the cab.
> *When I’m trying to duplicate what I see in a specific photo, commercially
> available sets often just don’t do what I want. *
> No, I do not want to do this kind of work commercially.
>
> I could, if there’s interest, give a presentation to Society members via
> Zoom on how to get started in doing all this for yourselves.  I would need
> somebody in the Society to set up the Zoom session for however many folks
> are interested.
>
> I’m not trying to deflate the Society’s market for the cool decals that
> are being considered.  But no matter how zealous the Society gets in
> producing these things, they just will not cover everybody’s interests, and
> they will rarely print exactly the road numbers everybody wants, meaning
> that they will still be left piecing together road numbers for headlights,
> domes, cabs, etc.  There is no need to put up with any such issues.
>
> -Eric Bott
>
>
> *From:* NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> *On Behalf
> Of *NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 24, 2020 20:22
> *To:* NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> *Cc:* NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)
>
> The Spirit of Roanoke lettering shouldn't take up much room either. Is
> that the only thing added to the latest incarnation of the 611?
>
> Roger Huber
> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
>
>
> On Thursday, September 24, 2020, 08:12:22 PM CDT, NW Modeling List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> What a great set of decals this is going to be.  Please announce them as
> soon as we can pre-order them.
> Walter Davis, Youngsville, NC
> On 9/24/2020 12:57 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List wrote:
>
> Actually this set has been slowly brewing for quite some time. Years ago I
> purchased the art that Roanoke Rails used to produce their J set. Ken and I
> have been gathering information for years.
> I am paying close attention to the comments to see what is needed in
> addition to the obvious lettering. Again, Ken and I have worked on many
> prototype lettering projects including cabooses, freight cars, passenger
> cars, and locomotives, both diesel and steam. The Class J number 611 is
> probably our most famous project.
> Small items like class plates don't take much space so there should be
> plenty of those.
> As previously stated, The Spirit of Roanoke lettering will not be included
> in this set. The era of this set will be up to 1959.
> The set will be offered in HO, N, and O Scale.
> Richard D. Shell
> ShellScale Decals
>
> ------------------------------
>
> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 NW Modeling List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> And there are those worms I was worrying about.  LOL.  You will notice I
> did not mention the current excursion lettering in my original post, so you
> can guess how I feel about it.  Even the items I mentioned from the 90's
> are very limiting, the Forgive Them Lord sticker only being on her for a
> few hours.
>
> Seriously though, I'm mostly just trying to encourage conversation and
> feedback for what people are interested in for the set.  Unless I
> misunderstood, this is not a set that is already in development but is
> essentially starting new right now, and both representatives from
> Shellscale and NWHS who are working on the decal are partaking in this
> conversation.  This seems an excellent opportunity for anyone with interest
> in this set to speak up about something they would like to see, even if it
> doesn't make it onto the final decal set.  So if there is some data or
> lettering size that hasn't been done right or available at all in the past,
> now is the time to comment.
>
> Regardless, sounds like it is going to be a great and much welcomed set.
>
> Now if only we could get an accurate set for NRHS and other excursion
> cars... ;)
>
> Marty Flick
> -----------------------------------------
> From: "NW Modeling List"
> To: "NW Modeling List"
> Cc:
> Sent: Wednesday September 23 2020 12:18:51PM
> Subject: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)
>
> Jim:
>
> Richard Shell and I both despise the “phrase” under the cab for its
> historical inaccuracy, and we both agree it will not be part of any set we
> do.
>
> Ken Miller
>
> > On Sep 23, 2020, at 8:56 AM, NW Modeling List
> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> >
> > My two cents is the excursion stuff should not be included in the set;
> I'd prefer a historically accurate set for steam era service. I would
> imagine VMT or whoever owns 611 would want some money in exchange for using
> their marketing phrase.
> >
> > Jim Brewer
>
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> --
> Walter Davis
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>
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, David Bott*
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