[game_preservation] Watermarks and Studio Communication

[Captain Commando]

Henry,

Yeah, a watermark is certainly not the original - but it can sometimes do if
it's the only copy available (and if it's famous enough, people will search
high and low and everywhere in-between for the original). I've been doing
something similar with MP3s - I get multiple MP3s of essentially the same
song, but with different ID3 tags or filenames. These are made and
distributed by the people who make them as opposed to say different tags of
a CD. I decided to back up a copy of the multiples before deleting them as
you never know if it will be important later. And space is cheap.

Watermarking will certainly be an important part of digital culture and
would be important to a future paper (or present, paper, really) on
ownership in the Network Age. Who knows how images will be distributed 30
years from now, but I doubt they'll be marked in the same way.

-DM

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu> wrote:


>  <wrote this morning but forgot to send until now>

>

> Devin,

>

> Preservation itself, in a way, is neutral with regard to digital

> watermarking.   By that I mean that the technology and practice of

> watermarking itself should be preserved, as being likely to be of historical

> and technical interest.   So, we should expect to collect watermarked

> images.  That said, I do not think we can consider these as pristine images,

> but rather as documenting the practice of watermarking.  It would be rather

> like considering a cracked copy of a game, with a cracktro as being a

> preserved copy of the original game; surely, cracked copies of this sort are

> worth preserving, but they are not valid copies of the original game.   (I

> don't mean to compare cracking and watermarking, by the way, other than to

> point out that they are modified copies.)

>

> My inclination would be to build collections of original data (software,

> images, etc.) and Creative Commons seems like a good way to handle access

> (but there are difficulties with applying it retroactively without

> permission).   We are going to wrestle with documenting authenticity in the

> LC project, and I think that's also a good topic for the White Paper. Then

> perhaps separately build separate collections around topics such as

> watermarking, cracking, and other means of duplication.   In some cases, of

> course, a copy in the latter sort of collection may end up being the only

> copy to survive.

>

> Henry

>

>

> At 09:37 AM 4/21/2008, Captain Commando wrote:

>

> I have started to realize that watermarking is really a bad idea. Sure, it

> tells you where the image came from without having to check the metadata,

> but all it does is ruin an otherwise nice image. For this reason, I am

> starting to turn to the idea of uploading future high-res images to the

> Metroid Database without watermarks and possibly eventually converting some

> older images over and using Creative Commons when possible. I'm not sure if

> this is something we should be worried about (watermarking) but I know I'd

> prefer to have images without it in my own collection. Goodness knows we

> already get more hits than any other fan site out there anyway.

>

> -DM

>

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Simon Carless <simon at archive.org> wrote:

>

>  In more recent history, GamesPress:

>

>  http://www.gamespress.co.uk/

>

> ...is an excellent source for unwatermarked assets. I believe you need to

> pay a minor amount for full asset access, though. And you have to be a

> journo to use it at all.

>

> s!

>

>

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>

> wrote:

>  Oh, I noticed this on some random news feed. It is utterly ridiculous

> (and funny no doubt), but of course this might just be an indicator that

> someone at Capcom's American office doesn't know how to contact the Japan

> office! (bloody interns ;-) )

>

> As for high quality unmarked copies (like, in PNG format not JPEG), it's a

> real issue. There isn't any good unwatermarked source for most of these

> marketing items a few years after release (this also can include preview

> screenshots, artwork, etc.). I'll be looking to source some for the Digital

> Game Canon website and the entries on there as a prototype to see if it's

> feasible for the IGDA to store them, or if there is any way to get them in

> the first place (perhaps the IGDA can get some contacts going to be sent

> marketing materials the same as press websites do and the preservation SIG

> can sort them).

>

> I'm sure some marketing departments keep tons of archives of this kind of

> stuff, I just wish I knew how we could get at it! :-) IGN etc. are "okay"

> for some research, but the fact is, it's unworkable for anyone doing proper

> historical research or trying to reuse the images in any way, since

> copyright (somehow) gets in the way...funnily, IGN "watermarks" to protect

> their copyright, despite the images not being theirs in the first place.

>

> Certainly the images would be better released under some less restrictive

> copyright (creative commons or somesuch), but permission is always a hassle,

> although I doubt anyone could sue for use of the original unmarked images

> anyway (marked ones at the very least, stupidly, might infringe trademark

> laws since IGN etc. plaster them with their logos).

>

> Some sites don't watermark or downscale (or JPEG images, urg...) though,

> although I've not made a list.

>

> Definitely a good whitepaper point at least!

>

> Andrew

>

> Captain Commando wrote:

>

> I recently blogged about the debacle of Capcom using an image watermarked

> by IGN for the US Okami Wii box art. I think this is something the IGDA

> Preservation SIG should be concerned with as it seems to me if you're

> organized and have good communication between studios, you're also able to

> preserve stuff better (and perhaps get a better product?).

>

>

> http://deserthat.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/ign-watermarks-and-lack-of-studio-intercommunication/

>

> Another point to add to the White Paper?

>

> -DM

>

> --

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

> "Until next time..."

> Captain Commando

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

>

> game_preservation at igda.org

>

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

>  game_preservation at igda.org

>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

>  game_preservation at igda.org

>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>

>

>

>

> --

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

> "Until next time..."

> Captain Commando

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

> game_preservation at igda.org

>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>

> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>  Film & Media Collections

> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

> Stanford University Libraries

> Stanford CA 94305-6004

> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

> game_preservation at igda.org

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>

>



-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/attachments/20080421/664f1f5c/attachment.htm>