[game_preservation] Watermarks and Studio Communication

[Andrew Armstrong]

I'll note this down to consider in the future. Certainly, the 
meta-industry (or what is the right word?) regarding non-development or 
publishing companies will be important to record the histories of, and 
watermarking and logos are definitely an important part of that. 
Hopefully fair and educational use of such watermarks and logos will 
suffice as a reason not to sue if any effort was made to document the 
companies!

(I also agree, it's good that such images exist even if not pristine, 
just so there is a copy - although there'd be no need to store all of 
them, a sample would do, and this story certainly would be an 
interesting one to note as an example of how it can look bad).

Andrew

Captain Commando wrote:

> Henry,

>

> Yeah, a watermark is certainly not the original - but it can sometimes 

> do if it's the only copy available (and if it's famous enough, people 

> will search high and low and everywhere in-between for the original). 

> I've been doing something similar with MP3s - I get multiple MP3s of 

> essentially the same song, but with different ID3 tags or filenames. 

> These are made and distributed by the people who make them as opposed 

> to say different tags of a CD. I decided to back up a copy of the 

> multiples before deleting them as you never know if it will be 

> important later. And space is cheap.

>

> Watermarking will certainly be an important part of digital culture 

> and would be important to a future paper (or present, paper, really) 

> on ownership in the Network Age. Who knows how images will be 

> distributed 30 years from now, but I doubt they'll be marked in the 

> same way.

>

> -DM

>

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu 

> <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote:

>

>     <wrote this morning but forgot to send until now>

>

>     Devin,

>

>     Preservation itself, in a way, is neutral with regard to digital

>     watermarking.   By that I mean that the technology and practice of

>     watermarking itself should be preserved, as being likely to be of

>     historical and technical interest.   So, we should expect to

>     collect watermarked images.  That said, I do not think we can

>     consider these as pristine images, but rather as documenting the

>     practice of watermarking.  It would be rather like considering a

>     cracked copy of a game, with a cracktro as being a preserved copy

>     of the original game; surely, cracked copies of this sort are

>     worth preserving, but they are not valid copies of the original

>     game.   (I don't mean to compare cracking and watermarking, by the

>     way, other than to point out that they are modified copies.)

>

>     My inclination would be to build collections of original data

>     (software, images, etc.) and Creative Commons seems like a good

>     way to handle access (but there are difficulties with applying it

>     retroactively without permission).   We are going to wrestle with

>     documenting authenticity in the LC project, and I think that's

>     also a good topic for the White Paper. Then perhaps separately

>     build separate collections around topics such as watermarking,

>     cracking, and other means of duplication.   In some cases, of

>     course, a copy in the latter sort of collection may end up being

>     the only copy to survive.

>

>     Henry

>

>

>     At 09:37 AM 4/21/2008, Captain Commando wrote:

>>     I have started to realize that watermarking is really a bad idea.

>>     Sure, it tells you where the image came from without having to

>>     check the metadata, but all it does is ruin an otherwise nice

>>     image. For this reason, I am starting to turn to the idea of

>>     uploading future high-res images to the Metroid Database without

>>     watermarks and possibly eventually converting some older images

>>     over and using Creative Commons when possible. I'm not sure if

>>     this is something we should be worried about (watermarking) but I

>>     know I'd prefer to have images without it in my own collection.

>>     Goodness knows we already get more hits than any other fan site

>>     out there anyway.

>>

>>     -DM

>>

>>     On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Simon Carless

>>     <simon at archive.org <mailto:simon at archive.org>> wrote:

>

>         In more recent history, GamesPress:

>

>         http://www.gamespress.co.uk/

>

>         ...is an excellent source for unwatermarked assets. I believe

>         you need to pay a minor amount for full asset access, though.

>         And you have to be a journo to use it at all.

>

>         s!

>

>

>         On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Armstrong

>         <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:

>

>             Oh, I noticed this on some random news feed. It is utterly

>             ridiculous (and funny no doubt), but of course this might

>             just be an indicator that someone at Capcom's American

>             office doesn't know how to contact the Japan office!

>             (bloody interns ;-) )

>

>             As for high quality unmarked copies (like, in PNG format

>             not JPEG), it's a real issue. There isn't any good

>             unwatermarked source for most of these marketing items a

>             few years after release (this also can include preview

>             screenshots, artwork, etc.). I'll be looking to source

>             some for the Digital Game Canon website and the entries on

>             there as a prototype to see if it's feasible for the IGDA

>             to store them, or if there is any way to get them in the

>             first place (perhaps the IGDA can get some contacts going

>             to be sent marketing materials the same as press websites

>             do and the preservation SIG can sort them).

>

>             I'm sure some marketing departments keep tons of archives

>             of this kind of stuff, I just wish I knew how we could get

>             at it! :-) IGN etc. are "okay" for some research, but the

>             fact is, it's unworkable for anyone doing proper

>             historical research or trying to reuse the images in any

>             way, since copyright (somehow) gets in the way...funnily,

>             IGN "watermarks" to protect their copyright, despite the

>             images not being theirs in the first place.

>

>             Certainly the images would be better released under some

>             less restrictive copyright (creative commons or somesuch),

>             but permission is always a hassle, although I doubt anyone

>             could sue for use of the original unmarked images anyway

>             (marked ones at the very least, stupidly, might infringe

>             trademark laws since IGN etc. plaster them with their logos).

>

>             Some sites don't watermark or downscale (or JPEG images,

>             urg...) though, although I've not made a list.

>

>             Definitely a good whitepaper point at least!

>

>             Andrew

>

>             Captain Commando wrote:

>>                 I recently blogged about the debacle of Capcom using

>>                 an image watermarked by IGN for the US Okami Wii box

>>                 art. I think this is something the IGDA Preservation

>>                 SIG should be concerned with as it seems to me if

>>                 you're organized and have good communication between

>>                 studios, you're also able to preserve stuff better

>>                 (and perhaps get a better product?).

>>

>>                 http://deserthat.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/ign-watermarks-and-lack-of-studio-intercommunication/

>>

>>

>>                 Another point to add to the White Paper?

>>

>>                 -DM

>>

>>                 -- 

>>                 The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>>

>>                 "Until next time..."

>>                 Captain Commando

>>

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>

>

>     -- 

>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

>     "Until next time..."

>     Captain Commando

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>

>     Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>     Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>      Film & Media Collections

>     HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>     Stanford University Libraries

>     Stanford CA 94305-6004

>     650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;

>     http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>

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>

>

>

> -- 

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

> "Until next time..."

> Captain Commando

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