[game_preservation] Watermarks and Studio Communication

[Simon Carless]

Incidentally, these folks are doing an awesome job of archiving arcade
flyers, we should make sure someone has a spare copy:

http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=home

s!

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>
wrote:


>  I'll note this down to consider in the future. Certainly, the

> meta-industry (or what is the right word?) regarding non-development or

> publishing companies will be important to record the histories of, and

> watermarking and logos are definitely an important part of that. Hopefully

> fair and educational use of such watermarks and logos will suffice as a

> reason not to sue if any effort was made to document the companies!

>

> (I also agree, it's good that such images exist even if not pristine, just

> so there is a copy - although there'd be no need to store all of them, a

> sample would do, and this story certainly would be an interesting one to

> note as an example of how it can look bad).

>

> Andrew

>

> Captain Commando wrote:

>

> Henry,

>

> Yeah, a watermark is certainly not the original - but it can sometimes do

> if it's the only copy available (and if it's famous enough, people will

> search high and low and everywhere in-between for the original). I've been

> doing something similar with MP3s - I get multiple MP3s of essentially the

> same song, but with different ID3 tags or filenames. These are made and

> distributed by the people who make them as opposed to say different tags of

> a CD. I decided to back up a copy of the multiples before deleting them as

> you never know if it will be important later. And space is cheap.

>

> Watermarking will certainly be an important part of digital culture and

> would be important to a future paper (or present, paper, really) on

> ownership in the Network Age. Who knows how images will be distributed 30

> years from now, but I doubt they'll be marked in the same way.

>

> -DM

>

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu> wrote:

>

> > <wrote this morning but forgot to send until now>

> >

> > Devin,

> >

> > Preservation itself, in a way, is neutral with regard to digital

> > watermarking.   By that I mean that the technology and practice of

> > watermarking itself should be preserved, as being likely to be of historical

> > and technical interest.   So, we should expect to collect watermarked

> > images.  That said, I do not think we can consider these as pristine images,

> > but rather as documenting the practice of watermarking.  It would be rather

> > like considering a cracked copy of a game, with a cracktro as being a

> > preserved copy of the original game; surely, cracked copies of this sort are

> > worth preserving, but they are not valid copies of the original game.   (I

> > don't mean to compare cracking and watermarking, by the way, other than to

> > point out that they are modified copies.)

> >

> > My inclination would be to build collections of original data (software,

> > images, etc.) and Creative Commons seems like a good way to handle access

> > (but there are difficulties with applying it retroactively without

> > permission).   We are going to wrestle with documenting authenticity in the

> > LC project, and I think that's also a good topic for the White Paper. Then

> > perhaps separately build separate collections around topics such as

> > watermarking, cracking, and other means of duplication.   In some cases, of

> > course, a copy in the latter sort of collection may end up being the only

> > copy to survive.

> >

> > Henry

> >

> > At 09:37 AM 4/21/2008, Captain Commando wrote:

> >

> > I have started to realize that watermarking is really a bad idea. Sure,

> > it tells you where the image came from without having to check the metadata,

> > but all it does is ruin an otherwise nice image. For this reason, I am

> > starting to turn to the idea of uploading future high-res images to the

> > Metroid Database without watermarks and possibly eventually converting some

> > older images over and using Creative Commons when possible. I'm not sure if

> > this is something we should be worried about (watermarking) but I know I'd

> > prefer to have images without it in my own collection. Goodness knows we

> > already get more hits than any other fan site out there anyway.

> >

> > -DM

> >

> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Simon Carless <simon at archive.org>

> > wrote:

> >

> >    In more recent history, GamesPress:

> >

> >  http://www.gamespress.co.uk/

> >

> >  ...is an excellent source for unwatermarked assets. I believe you need

> > to pay a minor amount for full asset access, though. And you have to be a

> > journo to use it at all.

> >

> >  s!

> >

> >

> >  On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Armstrong <

> > andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:

> >  Oh, I noticed this on some random news feed. It is utterly ridiculous

> > (and funny no doubt), but of course this might just be an indicator that

> > someone at Capcom's American office doesn't know how to contact the Japan

> > office! (bloody interns ;-) )

> >

> >  As for high quality unmarked copies (like, in PNG format not JPEG),

> > it's a real issue. There isn't any good unwatermarked source for most of

> > these marketing items a few years after release (this also can include

> > preview screenshots, artwork, etc.). I'll be looking to source some for the

> > Digital Game Canon website and the entries on there as a prototype to see if

> > it's feasible for the IGDA to store them, or if there is any way to get them

> > in the first place (perhaps the IGDA can get some contacts going to be sent

> > marketing materials the same as press websites do and the preservation SIG

> > can sort them).

> >

> >  I'm sure some marketing departments keep tons of archives of this kind

> > of stuff, I just wish I knew how we could get at it! :-) IGN etc. are "okay"

> > for some research, but the fact is, it's unworkable for anyone doing proper

> > historical research or trying to reuse the images in any way, since

> > copyright (somehow) gets in the way...funnily, IGN "watermarks" to protect

> > their copyright, despite the images not being theirs in the first place.

> >

> >  Certainly the images would be better released under some less

> > restrictive copyright (creative commons or somesuch), but permission is

> > always a hassle, although I doubt anyone could sue for use of the original

> > unmarked images anyway (marked ones at the very least, stupidly, might

> > infringe trademark laws since IGN etc. plaster them with their logos).

> >

> >  Some sites don't watermark or downscale (or JPEG images, urg...)

> > though, although I've not made a list.

> >

> >  Definitely a good whitepaper point at least!

> >

> >  Andrew

> >

> >  Captain Commando wrote:

> >

> > I recently blogged about the debacle of Capcom using an image

> > watermarked by IGN for the US Okami Wii box art. I think this is something

> > the IGDA Preservation SIG should be concerned with as it seems to me if

> > you're organized and have good communication between studios, you're also

> > able to preserve stuff better (and perhaps get a better product?).

> >

> >

> > http://deserthat.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/ign-watermarks-and-lack-of-studio-intercommunication/

> >

> >  Another point to add to the White Paper?

> >

> >  -DM

> >

> >  --

> >  The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

> >

> >  "Until next time..."

> >  Captain Commando

> >

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> >

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> >

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> >

> >

> >

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> >

> >

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> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

> >

> > "Until next time..."

> > Captain Commando

> > _______________________________________________

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> > game_preservation at igda.org

> >  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> >

> > Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

> > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

> >  Film & Media Collections

> > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

> > Stanford University Libraries

> > Stanford CA 94305-6004

> > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

> >

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> >

> >

>

>

> --

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

> "Until next time..."

> Captain Commando

>

> ------------------------------

>

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