[game_preservation] Watermarks and Studio Communication

[Captain Commando]

That's true. They should be a key resource for that and I've used them a lot
in the past. As he sells the flyers, my guess is he kept higher-quality
images.

-DM

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Simon Carless <simon at archive.org> wrote:


> Incidentally, these folks are doing an awesome job of archiving arcade

> flyers, we should make sure someone has a spare copy:

>

> http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=home

>

> s!

>

>

> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>

> wrote:

>

> >  I'll note this down to consider in the future. Certainly, the

> > meta-industry (or what is the right word?) regarding non-development or

> > publishing companies will be important to record the histories of, and

> > watermarking and logos are definitely an important part of that. Hopefully

> > fair and educational use of such watermarks and logos will suffice as a

> > reason not to sue if any effort was made to document the companies!

> >

> > (I also agree, it's good that such images exist even if not pristine,

> > just so there is a copy - although there'd be no need to store all of them,

> > a sample would do, and this story certainly would be an interesting one to

> > note as an example of how it can look bad).

> >

> > Andrew

> >

> > Captain Commando wrote:

> >

> > Henry,

> >

> > Yeah, a watermark is certainly not the original - but it can sometimes

> > do if it's the only copy available (and if it's famous enough, people will

> > search high and low and everywhere in-between for the original). I've been

> > doing something similar with MP3s - I get multiple MP3s of essentially the

> > same song, but with different ID3 tags or filenames. These are made and

> > distributed by the people who make them as opposed to say different tags of

> > a CD. I decided to back up a copy of the multiples before deleting them as

> > you never know if it will be important later. And space is cheap.

> >

> > Watermarking will certainly be an important part of digital culture and

> > would be important to a future paper (or present, paper, really) on

> > ownership in the Network Age. Who knows how images will be distributed 30

> > years from now, but I doubt they'll be marked in the same way.

> >

> > -DM

> >

> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > <wrote this morning but forgot to send until now>

> > >

> > > Devin,

> > >

> > > Preservation itself, in a way, is neutral with regard to digital

> > > watermarking.   By that I mean that the technology and practice of

> > > watermarking itself should be preserved, as being likely to be of historical

> > > and technical interest.   So, we should expect to collect watermarked

> > > images.  That said, I do not think we can consider these as pristine images,

> > > but rather as documenting the practice of watermarking.  It would be rather

> > > like considering a cracked copy of a game, with a cracktro as being a

> > > preserved copy of the original game; surely, cracked copies of this sort are

> > > worth preserving, but they are not valid copies of the original game.   (I

> > > don't mean to compare cracking and watermarking, by the way, other than to

> > > point out that they are modified copies.)

> > >

> > > My inclination would be to build collections of original data

> > > (software, images, etc.) and Creative Commons seems like a good way to

> > > handle access (but there are difficulties with applying it retroactively

> > > without permission).   We are going to wrestle with documenting authenticity

> > > in the LC project, and I think that's also a good topic for the White Paper.

> > > Then perhaps separately build separate collections around topics such as

> > > watermarking, cracking, and other means of duplication.   In some cases, of

> > > course, a copy in the latter sort of collection may end up being the only

> > > copy to survive.

> > >

> > > Henry

> > >

> > > At 09:37 AM 4/21/2008, Captain Commando wrote:

> > >

> > > I have started to realize that watermarking is really a bad idea.

> > > Sure, it tells you where the image came from without having to check the

> > > metadata, but all it does is ruin an otherwise nice image. For this reason,

> > > I am starting to turn to the idea of uploading future high-res images to the

> > > Metroid Database without watermarks and possibly eventually converting some

> > > older images over and using Creative Commons when possible. I'm not sure if

> > > this is something we should be worried about (watermarking) but I know I'd

> > > prefer to have images without it in my own collection. Goodness knows we

> > > already get more hits than any other fan site out there anyway.

> > >

> > > -DM

> > >

> > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Simon Carless <simon at archive.org>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > >    In more recent history, GamesPress:

> > >

> > >  http://www.gamespress.co.uk/

> > >

> > >  ...is an excellent source for unwatermarked assets. I believe you

> > > need to pay a minor amount for full asset access, though. And you have to be

> > > a journo to use it at all.

> > >

> > >  s!

> > >

> > >

> > >  On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Armstrong <

> > > andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:

> > >  Oh, I noticed this on some random news feed. It is utterly ridiculous

> > > (and funny no doubt), but of course this might just be an indicator that

> > > someone at Capcom's American office doesn't know how to contact the Japan

> > > office! (bloody interns ;-) )

> > >

> > >  As for high quality unmarked copies (like, in PNG format not JPEG),

> > > it's a real issue. There isn't any good unwatermarked source for most of

> > > these marketing items a few years after release (this also can include

> > > preview screenshots, artwork, etc.). I'll be looking to source some for the

> > > Digital Game Canon website and the entries on there as a prototype to see if

> > > it's feasible for the IGDA to store them, or if there is any way to get them

> > > in the first place (perhaps the IGDA can get some contacts going to be sent

> > > marketing materials the same as press websites do and the preservation SIG

> > > can sort them).

> > >

> > >  I'm sure some marketing departments keep tons of archives of this

> > > kind of stuff, I just wish I knew how we could get at it! :-) IGN etc. are

> > > "okay" for some research, but the fact is, it's unworkable for anyone doing

> > > proper historical research or trying to reuse the images in any way, since

> > > copyright (somehow) gets in the way...funnily, IGN "watermarks" to protect

> > > their copyright, despite the images not being theirs in the first place.

> > >

> > >  Certainly the images would be better released under some less

> > > restrictive copyright (creative commons or somesuch), but permission is

> > > always a hassle, although I doubt anyone could sue for use of the original

> > > unmarked images anyway (marked ones at the very least, stupidly, might

> > > infringe trademark laws since IGN etc. plaster them with their logos).

> > >

> > >  Some sites don't watermark or downscale (or JPEG images, urg...)

> > > though, although I've not made a list.

> > >

> > >  Definitely a good whitepaper point at least!

> > >

> > >  Andrew

> > >

> > >  Captain Commando wrote:

> > >

> > > I recently blogged about the debacle of Capcom using an image

> > > watermarked by IGN for the US Okami Wii box art. I think this is something

> > > the IGDA Preservation SIG should be concerned with as it seems to me if

> > > you're organized and have good communication between studios, you're also

> > > able to preserve stuff better (and perhaps get a better product?).

> > >

> > >

> > > http://deserthat.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/ign-watermarks-and-lack-of-studio-intercommunication/

> > >

> > >  Another point to add to the White Paper?

> > >

> > >  -DM

> > >

> > >  --

> > >  The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

> > >

> > >  "Until next time..."

> > >  Captain Commando

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > game_preservation mailing list

> > >

> > > game_preservation at igda.org

> > >

> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >  _______________________________________________

> > >  game_preservation mailing list

> > >  game_preservation at igda.org

> > >  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >  _______________________________________________

> > >  game_preservation mailing list

> > >  game_preservation at igda.org

> > >  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

> > >

> > > "Until next time..."

> > > Captain Commando

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > game_preservation mailing list

> > > game_preservation at igda.org

> > >  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> > >

> > > Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

> > > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

> > >  Film & Media Collections

> > > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

> > > Stanford University Libraries

> > > Stanford CA 94305-6004

> > > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > game_preservation mailing list

> > > game_preservation at igda.org

> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > --

> > The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

> >

> > "Until next time..."

> > Captain Commando

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> >

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > game_preservation mailing list

> > game_preservation at igda.org

> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

> >

> >

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

> game_preservation at igda.org

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>

>



-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/attachments/20080421/b60b2d40/attachment.htm>