[game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

[Andrew Armstrong]

I'd take the software for singleplayer because then you can make the 
videos from it ;) you can't do that the other way around (the opposite 
is true for the experiences of a multiplayer game - you can't recreate 
it in software, but can at least record on perspective in video/sound).

The podcast also was interesting (especially on the collector who was 
much more open then some) - we do need to see about the related areas of 
pinball and mechanical machines. Also need to sort the "Game Audio" 
collection so we can get podcasts like this (and general gaming 
podcasts) stored at the IA (man so many groups to contact for that, even 
just retro / historical / critical podcasts or audio. I need some 
students to pick on to help like you're able to get Henry :D ).

Andrew

Henry Lowood wrote:

> Stuart,

>

> Yes, that's right for multiplayer games; for single player, I would 

> probably pick software, too.   (Though of course, when you take the 

> gun away, I will want it all.)

>

> Henry

>

> Stuart Feldhamer wrote:

>>

>> Henry,

>>

>>  

>>

>> It sounds like we don't disagree much at all, actually.  : ) I was 

>> talking about preserving the experience, and only in that context, 

>> but I agree that preserving the events in a multiplayer world is also 

>> important.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Bottom line -- you really can't fully preserve the experience of an 

>> MMO. That's why I made sure to play Majestic before it died, knowing 

>> it would die. Same for other MMOs like Uru. (Can you tell I'm more of 

>> an adventure gamer than an RPGer?)

>>

>>  

>>

>> The only place where we disagree is that although I want both, if you 

>> put a gun to my head I would have to pick the software over the 

>> documentation, at least for a single player game. Or were you only 

>> talking about MMOs?

>>

>>  

>>

>> Stuart

>>

>>  

>>

>> *From:* Henry Lowood [mailto:lowood at stanford.edu]

>> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 7:24 PM

>> *To:* stuart at feldhamer.com; IGDA Game Preservation SIG

>> *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

>>

>>  

>>

>> Hi Stuart,

>>

>> Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay 

>> documentation (which is not just video).   My point was that 

>> documenting a complex multi-player or massively multi-player world is 

>> as much about documenting events that happen in those spaces as it is 

>> about preserving software.  I don't think that's marginal at all.

>>

>> If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That sort of 

>> preservation is closer to re-enactment than history, however.  Ok, 

>> yes, it is possible that groups will get together to play Everquest 

>> in 100 years, just like they camp out in Civil War replica uniforms 

>> and fire muskets in line.  But that experience is NOT the experience 

>> of what happens in virtual worlds today, i.e., it is not going to be 

>> history.  It is still going to take place 100 years from now, no 

>> matter how you cut it.  For similar reasons, I disagree strongly that 

>> playing with bots is going to be informative, at least in terms of 

>> historical work.

>>

>> In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software 

>> preservation and "event" preservation (for want of a better term).   

>> My emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more of a 

>> corrective to the idea that it's all about software preservation than 

>> it is an attempt to say we should only do video capture and gather 

>> documentation.  But if you put a gun to my head and say pick one or 

>> the other, software or documentation, you can't have both, as a 

>> historian I would go for documentation.

>>

>> Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful; I 

>> certainly agree with that statement. 

>>

>> Henry

>>

>> Stuart Feldhamer wrote:

>>

>> I just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well done, 

>> although I think they would both have been improved by video -- 

>> especially the one on collectors. You can't begin to understand 

>> collectors until you actually SEE some of their collections.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Henry, you made a comment in the podcast that a single player game 

>> can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a multi-player game 

>> can't be, because it requires other people to play, and the guy won't 

>> be able to find other people to play it with him. Regardless if that 

>> is true or not, it's impossible to preserve the actual experience of 

>> playing the game by taking video and screenshots. The only way the 

>> guy in 100 years is going to be able to have the experience of 

>> playing the game is if he manages to get a whole bunch of other 

>> people to play with him, or if we can design suitably convincing bots 

>> to take the place of the other players.

>>

>>  

>>

>> I agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to 

>> gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically added to 

>> the mix by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player games? It 

>> sounded from the podcast as if this was some kind of solution to the 

>> problem of preserving multi-player games in general. I think it's 

>> useful, but it only adds marginally to the preservation of the game 

>> experience.

>>

>>  

>>

>> Stuart

>>

>>  

>>

>>  

>>

>> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org 

>> <mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org> 

>> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Henry Lowood

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM

>> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG

>> *Subject:* [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

>>

>>  

>>

>> Some of you may be interested in the far-flung corners of the world 

>> that the Preserving Virtual Worlds project has reached.  Others I 

>> know are intensely interested in the world of game collectors.  In 

>> either case, check out Robert Ashley's new podcast, A Life Well Wasted:

>> http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/

>> The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I have 

>> to say is not so different in some ways from book collectors (said 

>> from a library perspective). The last quarter or so is about our 

>> project. Robert Ashley, the man behind ALWW, has said on forums he 

>> might release the interview with me in its entirety.  He is a bright 

>> guy and a great interviewer -- makes you wonder about all the talent 

>> shaking loose from 1Up.

>> Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history and 

>> demise of EGM.

>> Henry

>>

>> -- 

>>

>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>

>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>

>>  Film & Media Collections

>>

>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>

>> Stanford University Libraries

>>

>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>

>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>; 

>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>

>>  

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>>   

>>  

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>>   

>>

>>  

>>

>> -- 

>>

>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>

>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>

>>  Film & Media Collections

>>

>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>

>> Stanford University Libraries

>>

>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>

>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>; 

>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>

>

> -- 

> Henry Lowood

> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>      Film & Media Collections

> HRG, Green Library

> 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries

> Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA

> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood

> lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

>   

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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>   

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