[game_preservation] DOOM manifest for PVW project

[Devin Monnens]

Henry,
Do you have a list of all (?) versions of the DOOM game that were released?
This would include ports too I suppose. Actually, I'm kind of surprised
there isn't an article on DOOM in HG101 - that sounds like a perfect series
to cover.

Also, I hope you're going to publish a paper on this as a case study for
game preservation! Remember, I'll be hosting a panel on it in Albuquerque in
February. If we get enough people, it's possible we could do two sections.

-Devin

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:


>  Cool answers ^_^

>

> The robots.txt restrictions are a shame :( I wonder what the tool can do to

> maybe just simply bypass that (I tried the archive's crawler before, I think

> it has the option to bypass it - but I never tried it much due to the way it

> worked in the end) - recording something that is available and does download

> (after all, you don't get that kind of thing from something like putting a

> book in a repository/library, heh), but perhaps the key would be to not

> putting it online visibly ie; only on the Stanford servers in this case, but

> accessible to researchers if needed. You're right it is pretty arbitary when

> such robots.txt files are applied though (game fan sites? huh? :/ ).

> Ethically, I don't see a problem keeping offline or generally inaccessible

> online copies of a page or site content if it was publicly accessible in the

> first place, but I don't know about legal issues perhaps. I presume archives

> haven't been sued over keeping offline/dark copies or screenshots of

> downloaded web pages before.

>

> For the dates of things, I just was curious. I guess if it's not mandatory

> for the bag system to have any of this in the first place, then I guess

> there's little point :) I think the Archive-It tool adds some as comments on

> the page source anyway. It's mainly a good thing for dynamic pages - wiki's

> (notorious Wikipedia deleting content arbitrarily for instance) new feeds,

> etc. where no date might be visible, and digital copies of items like the

> games themselves - but you have dates there :)

>

> The copyright was just a legal thing yeah. I guess one option is always to

> scan/photograph the manuals, box art or whatever else will go in a

> repository but sometimes, for that, you need to have the original item or

> permission from someone who owns it, and some items are a lot rarer then

> others (especially if you go for multiple languages). If you get permission

> from the owner of the IP, no problemo I guess! They probably have access to

> digital copies of such material even if there were not ones available

> online. :)

>

> Thanks for explaining a little about the manifest system too. I presume the

> Bag-It system is entirely digital based, and that it is going to be

> digitally archived specially. It'd be great to hear more when you've

> finished it :)

>

> Andrew

>

> Henry Lowood wrote:

>

> Andrew,

>

> 1. On the books.  There are plenty of books on DOOM level editing and

> programming.  Trust me -- I still have a nice vertical pile of them on the

> floor of my office at home.  I won't say how high ...

>

> 2. On the web links. We do have local copies for the sites we crawled as

> part of our site.  If you look closely and know how Archive-It builds its

> links, you can tell which are normal crawls and which are ours.   I would

> say it's about 50-50.

>

> 3. Also on the links, the reason for the live links is robots.txt blocks on

> crawls.  Classic Doom, for example. I have no idea why.  Some day when I

> have time, I will write to them and ask them to open it up.  Yes, whenever

> possible, I would point to an Archive-It or Wayback Machine crawled version.

>

> 4. Dates in the manifest. Actually, the manifest is not even required for

> the Bag (we are using Bag-It for the file transfers).  Our guru in all

> things metadata/schemes is Jerome McDonough, who is on the list, and he puts

> a ton of effort into mapping relationships and all that.  My perspective as

> a curator here in the archivist role is that some sort of human-readable

> manifest belonged in the bag, so I just put it there.   It is not typical to

> do so, as far as I know.   I thought about dates, but this leads to another

> issue, which is that these documents as standing alone here are really out

> of context.  So, my feeling is that if there is a date on the document, that

> should suffice.   A propos, keep in mind that the documents here that are

> not actually DOOM are included as "context" for DOOM.  Again, it's not a

> research project or even a collection, really.  After the bags are delivered

> to the digital repository, we have the option of presenting the material in

> a different way.

>

> 5. In the last question, did you mean a problem as in a legal problem?   We

> asked id for permission to do this, and we got it.

>

> 6.  Thanks for catching the error.

>

> Henry

>

>

>

> Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>

> Yeah, I was joking about the wiki, it's your document, hehe - you said you

> have a wiki ;) perfect application unless you've got a good relational

> database for processing entries like that :)

>

> I've got no documents myself on doom level editing - I dabbled a little in

> it but that was, wow, years ago now, sorry. I'll leave it to someone else to

> know of a good one, I am sure someone else on this list would have a clue. I

> wonder if any of the DOOM books are related to level editing directly. There

> I know there is a few on just DOOM itself - I still need to read Masters of

> Doom, going to borrow it off a friend sometime (who ranted it was a great

> book himself, popular one that :) hehe).

>

> A few things if you want more comments - for the web links, perhaps there

> should be secondary links to Archive-It copies of the resources linked to

> directly (unless the implication is you have local copies downloaded of

> them) - most of them are Archive-It or Wayback but a few are just direct

> links at least (classic doom links, some mobygames, planetdoom...). It seems

> more a mistake not having them - thus I guess it's a standard practice to

> get an Archive-It copy to add it to a manifest?

>

> Another thing is dates. Is it worth in a manifest listing the dates items

> were either created or posted, or when they were looked at on the internet?

> Most do have wayback implicit dates mind you, and in a list that might not

> be appropriate I guess :)

>

> Finally - I just wondered, probably slightly related, but I guess there is

> no cause for concern having items like the DOOM manual basically in a

> manifest - ie; I presume a user-scanned copy of it (or maybe off the CD

> versions?). For other games, links to unofficial translations for ROM files,

> or emulation programs necessary to run something, etc. always might need to

> be added, no problems there I hope - I've no idea what the range of things

> the manifest should have in it is of course, or what reasons there might be

> to not add anything (apart from the obvious "you can't fit everything in,

> and not everything is of the same importance").

>

> I also did thoroughly re-read it just now - you've got an error for

> "MobyGames entry  for Ultimate DOOM" copies the link from the above entry.

>

> Andrew

>

> Henry Lowood wrote:

>

> Andrew,

>

> I think you were kidding, but just in case: Please don't put it on the

> wiki.  It's a draft for comments.   When all is said and done, we'll have

> all the documentation up on our project wiki, at which point it will be

> available for all sorts of pointing and clicking.

>

> On maps/levels in the manifest (at that time, the terms were in flux).

> Since this version, the one document I have added is Forsman & Kremeier's

> classic piece on BSP and DOOM rendering, plus there is the Q&A on editing.

> But you're right, a tutorial on map/level design would be nice.  If anyone

> wants to suggest a good document on that topic, I'll consider including it.

>

> Another point is that there is a fair-sized library of printed books on

> that subject, which we can hope will still be available 100 years from now.

>

> Henry

>

> Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>

> Thanks for the advice, I did open it in Open Office but sometimes, well,

> things do get mangled (whatever Microsoft format it is, mind you). It's

> pretty basic text though, hooray :D I'm tempted to put it on the wiki :)

>

> I liked reading the manifest. Covers all the areas I can think of except I

> guess technical documentation and tutorials for how to build levels for the

> game are kind of missing (so both technical documentation on the game, and

> how to build things for the game). Not needed for getting to know the game

> though.

>

> A very good example, certainly since it contains everything that would be

> needed to literally install and play the game, with some good important

> background pieces too.

>

> Andrew

>

> Devin Monnens wrote:

>

> The latest Open Office seems to have .docx support. But I still refuse to

> save anything in that format. This format shift has caused nothing but

> troubles. I don't even see how it is supposedly 'better' than the old

> version. I have enough trouble trying to teach students how to use the new

> Office without having to describe to them how to 'save as' a document (yes,

> this is rocket science to them).

>  -Devin

>

> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Alan Au <aau at alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>

>>

>> Microsoft released a compatibility tool a while back:

>>

>>

>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en

>>

>> - Alan

>>

>> ________________________________

>> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:59:40 +0100

>> > From: andrew at aarmstrong.org

>> > To: game_preservation at igda.org

>> > Subject: Re: [game_preservation] DOOM manifest for PVW project

>> >

>> > I finally got some time to check this out, apart from it's DOCX, and

>> > darn shucks if I don't own that particular bit of software. Can anyone

>> > whip up a ODT or DOC version? :) I am interested in reading it.

>> >

>> > (Proprietary formats for documentation of preservation practices, let's

>> > not even get into that argument/minefield, hehe).

>> >

>> > Andrew

>>

>>

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>

>

>

> --

> Devin Monnens

> www.deserthat.com

>

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

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>

> --

> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>  Film & Media Collections

> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

> Stanford University Libraries

> Stanford CA 94305-6004

> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>

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>

> --

> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>  Film & Media Collections

> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

> Stanford University Libraries

> Stanford CA 94305-6004

> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>

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-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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