[game_preservation] DOOM manifest for PVW project

Henry Lowood lowood at stanford.edu
Thu Sep 17 23:46:08 EDT 2009

Devin,

I have a fairly complete list for the DOS/Windows versions (shareware
and full), but I have not paid much attention to the versions for other
platforms. And note that we did not include every version in the bag;
for example DOOM II is not in there.

As for your other question, Id gave us permission to archive their
software, which involves making copies. There was no transfer of IP
rights. They also gave us permission to do some exhibition-related work,
again primarily for making copies. They have given us permission in the
past to use footage, screenshots and the like. In terms of wording, it
was pretty much blanket coverage for our project needs.

My impression is that HG is oriented towards console gaming. I would
have been surprised if they had covered DOOM. Have they covered any of
the major PC games or series?

Henry

Devin Monnens wrote:

> Henry,

>

> Do you have a list of all (?) versions of the DOOM game that were

> released? This would include ports too I suppose. Actually, I'm kind

> of surprised there isn't an article on DOOM in HG101 - that sounds

> like a perfect series to cover.

>

> Also, I hope you're going to publish a paper on this as a case study

> for game preservation! Remember, I'll be hosting a panel on it in

> Albuquerque in February. If we get enough people, it's possible we

> could do two sections.

>

> -Devin

>

> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Andrew Armstrong

> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:

>

> Cool answers ^_^

>

> The robots.txt restrictions are a shame :( I wonder what the tool

> can do to maybe just simply bypass that (I tried the archive's

> crawler before, I think it has the option to bypass it - but I

> never tried it much due to the way it worked in the end) -

> recording something that is available and does download (after

> all, you don't get that kind of thing from something like putting

> a book in a repository/library, heh), but perhaps the key would be

> to not putting it online visibly ie; only on the Stanford servers

> in this case, but accessible to researchers if needed. You're

> right it is pretty arbitary when such robots.txt files are applied

> though (game fan sites? huh? :/ ). Ethically, I don't see a

> problem keeping offline or generally inaccessible online copies of

> a page or site content if it was publicly accessible in the first

> place, but I don't know about legal issues perhaps. I presume

> archives haven't been sued over keeping offline/dark copies or

> screenshots of downloaded web pages before.

>

> For the dates of things, I just was curious. I guess if it's not

> mandatory for the bag system to have any of this in the first

> place, then I guess there's little point :) I think the Archive-It

> tool adds some as comments on the page source anyway. It's mainly

> a good thing for dynamic pages - wiki's (notorious Wikipedia

> deleting content arbitrarily for instance) new feeds, etc. where

> no date might be visible, and digital copies of items like the

> games themselves - but you have dates there :)

>

> The copyright was just a legal thing yeah. I guess one option is

> always to scan/photograph the manuals, box art or whatever else

> will go in a repository but sometimes, for that, you need to have

> the original item or permission from someone who owns it, and some

> items are a lot rarer then others (especially if you go for

> multiple languages). If you get permission from the owner of the

> IP, no problemo I guess! They probably have access to digital

> copies of such material even if there were not ones available

> online. :)

>

> Thanks for explaining a little about the manifest system too. I

> presume the Bag-It system is entirely digital based, and that it

> is going to be digitally archived specially. It'd be great to hear

> more when you've finished it :)

>

> Andrew

>

> Henry Lowood wrote:

>> Andrew,

>>

>> 1. On the books. There are plenty of books on DOOM level editing

>> and programming. Trust me -- I still have a nice vertical pile

>> of them on the floor of my office at home. I won't say how high ...

>>

>> 2. On the web links. We do have local copies for the sites we

>> crawled as part of our site. If you look closely and know how

>> Archive-It builds its links, you can tell which are normal crawls

>> and which are ours. I would say it's about 50-50.

>>

>> 3. Also on the links, the reason for the live links is robots.txt

>> blocks on crawls. Classic Doom, for example. I have no idea

>> why. Some day when I have time, I will write to them and ask

>> them to open it up. Yes, whenever possible, I would point to an

>> Archive-It or Wayback Machine crawled version.

>>

>> 4. Dates in the manifest. Actually, the manifest is not even

>> required for the Bag (we are using Bag-It for the file

>> transfers). Our guru in all things metadata/schemes is Jerome

>> McDonough, who is on the list, and he puts a ton of effort into

>> mapping relationships and all that. My perspective as a curator

>> here in the archivist role is that some sort of human-readable

>> manifest belonged in the bag, so I just put it there. It is not

>> typical to do so, as far as I know. I thought about dates, but

>> this leads to another issue, which is that these documents as

>> standing alone here are really out of context. So, my feeling is

>> that if there is a date on the document, that should suffice. A

>> propos, keep in mind that the documents here that are not

>> actually DOOM are included as "context" for DOOM. Again, it's

>> not a research project or even a collection, really. After the

>> bags are delivered to the digital repository, we have the option

>> of presenting the material in a different way.

>>

>> 5. In the last question, did you mean a problem as in a legal

>> problem? We asked id for permission to do this, and we got it.

>>

>> 6. Thanks for catching the error.

>>

>> Henry

>>

>>

>>

>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>>> Yeah, I was joking about the wiki, it's your document, hehe -

>>> you said you have a wiki ;) perfect application unless you've

>>> got a good relational database for processing entries like that :)

>>>

>>> I've got no documents myself on doom level editing - I dabbled a

>>> little in it but that was, wow, years ago now, sorry. I'll leave

>>> it to someone else to know of a good one, I am sure someone else

>>> on this list would have a clue. I wonder if any of the DOOM

>>> books are related to level editing directly. There I know there

>>> is a few on just DOOM itself - I still need to read Masters of

>>> Doom, going to borrow it off a friend sometime (who ranted it

>>> was a great book himself, popular one that :) hehe).

>>>

>>> A few things if you want more comments - for the web links,

>>> perhaps there should be secondary links to Archive-It copies of

>>> the resources linked to directly (unless the implication is you

>>> have local copies downloaded of them) - most of them are

>>> Archive-It or Wayback but a few are just direct links at least

>>> (classic doom links, some mobygames, planetdoom...). It seems

>>> more a mistake not having them - thus I guess it's a standard

>>> practice to get an Archive-It copy to add it to a manifest?

>>>

>>> Another thing is dates. Is it worth in a manifest listing the

>>> dates items were either created or posted, or when they were

>>> looked at on the internet? Most do have wayback implicit dates

>>> mind you, and in a list that might not be appropriate I guess :)

>>>

>>> Finally - I just wondered, probably slightly related, but I

>>> guess there is no cause for concern having items like the DOOM

>>> manual basically in a manifest - ie; I presume a user-scanned

>>> copy of it (or maybe off the CD versions?). For other games,

>>> links to unofficial translations for ROM files, or emulation

>>> programs necessary to run something, etc. always might need to

>>> be added, no problems there I hope - I've no idea what the range

>>> of things the manifest should have in it is of course, or what

>>> reasons there might be to not add anything (apart from the

>>> obvious "you can't fit everything in, and not everything is of

>>> the same importance").

>>>

>>> I also did thoroughly re-read it just now - you've got an error

>>> for "MobyGames entry for Ultimate DOOM" copies the link from

>>> the above entry.

>>>

>>> Andrew

>>>

>>> Henry Lowood wrote:

>>>> Andrew,

>>>>

>>>> I think you were kidding, but just in case: Please don't put it

>>>> on the wiki. It's a draft for comments. When all is said and

>>>> done, we'll have all the documentation up on our project wiki,

>>>> at which point it will be available for all sorts of pointing

>>>> and clicking.

>>>>

>>>> On maps/levels in the manifest (at that time, the terms were in

>>>> flux). Since this version, the one document I have added is

>>>> Forsman & Kremeier's classic piece on BSP and DOOM rendering,

>>>> plus there is the Q&A on editing. But you're right, a tutorial

>>>> on map/level design would be nice. If anyone wants to suggest

>>>> a good document on that topic, I'll consider including it.

>>>>

>>>> Another point is that there is a fair-sized library of printed

>>>> books on that subject, which we can hope will still be

>>>> available 100 years from now.

>>>>

>>>> Henry

>>>>

>>>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>>>>> Thanks for the advice, I did open it in Open Office but

>>>>> sometimes, well, things do get mangled (whatever Microsoft

>>>>> format it is, mind you). It's pretty basic text though, hooray

>>>>> :D I'm tempted to put it on the wiki :)

>>>>>

>>>>> I liked reading the manifest. Covers all the areas I can think

>>>>> of except I guess technical documentation and tutorials for

>>>>> how to build levels for the game are kind of missing (so both

>>>>> technical documentation on the game, and how to build things

>>>>> for the game). Not needed for getting to know the game though.

>>>>>

>>>>> A very good example, certainly since it contains everything

>>>>> that would be needed to literally install and play the game,

>>>>> with some good important background pieces too.

>>>>>

>>>>> Andrew

>>>>>

>>>>> Devin Monnens wrote:

>>>>>> The latest Open Office seems to have .docx support. But I

>>>>>> still refuse to save anything in that format. This format

>>>>>> shift has caused nothing but troubles. I don't even see how

>>>>>> it is supposedly 'better' than the old version. I have enough

>>>>>> trouble trying to teach students how to use the new Office

>>>>>> without having to describe to them how to 'save as' a

>>>>>> document (yes, this is rocket science to them).

>>>>>>

>>>>>> -Devin

>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Alan Au <aau at alum.mit.edu

>>>>>> <mailto:aau at alum.mit.edu>> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Microsoft released a compatibility tool a while back:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en

>>>>>> <http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> - Alan

>>>>>>

>>>>>> ________________________________

>>>>>> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:59:40 +0100

>>>>>> > From: andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>

>>>>>> > To: game_preservation at igda.org

>>>>>> <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>

>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [game_preservation] DOOM manifest for PVW

>>>>>> project

>>>>>> >

>>>>>> > I finally got some time to check this out, apart from

>>>>>> it's DOCX, and

>>>>>> > darn shucks if I don't own that particular bit of

>>>>>> software. Can anyone

>>>>>> > whip up a ODT or DOC version? :) I am interested in

>>>>>> reading it.

>>>>>> >

>>>>>> > (Proprietary formats for documentation of preservation

>>>>>> practices, let's

>>>>>> > not even get into that argument/minefield, hehe).

>>>>>> >

>>>>>> > Andrew

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________

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>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>> Devin Monnens

>>>>>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>

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>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>>> Film & Media Collections

>>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>>> Stanford University Libraries

>>>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;

>>>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood

>>>> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>

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>>

>> --

>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>> Film & Media Collections

>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>> Stanford University Libraries

>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;

>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> _______________________________________________ game_preservation

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>> <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>

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>

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>

>

>

>

> --

> Devin Monnens

> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>

>

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> _______________________________________________

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>


--
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

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