[game_preservation] Game Canon
Andrew Armstrong
andrew at aarmstrong.org
Tue Aug 10 06:18:15 EDT 2010
"Before you die" is not exactly for those on the deathbeds I think,
Stuart :)
Devin; regarding this though: Some games (as with books, film, music)
transcend what is simply a good game, into something that even if you
dislike the genre you would enjoy playing; the truly great, of which
there are at least a dozen in my mind.
Taste does come into it though. Those films might not be to everyones
taste (and they might not show up on every film critics list either), as
with games - the content can mean a lot. If people don't like monsters,
who says they'd enjoy Doom even if it really was, or is even, an
amazingly designed and fun game to play? :)
As for amount of games, I doubt I've played anywhere near 1000
videogames, but perhaps a fair few hundred though. Having a thousand to
recommend is a different kettle of fish as we've said - you could slam
through many old games in a few minutes for what it is worth, but you'd
never recommend endless clones of tetris or bejewled or card games that
commonly appear everywhere!
Andrew
On 09/08/2010 20:55, Devin Monnens wrote:
> It also raises an interesting question about the content of the games.
> Should everyone play Doom or Grand Theft Auto before they die? What if
> I hate sports? Should I play Madden?
>
> You could ask the same thing about film. A Clockwork Orange or Silence
> of the Lambs. Or Come and See. There are lots of people who would not
> have interest in seeing these films.
>
> So "before you die" shouldn't really be taken literally :P
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu
> <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote:
>
> It's an interesting question. There are some games I would
> recommend in a general way, but cannot claim to have played them
> seriously. I doubt that I could give more than a few dozen
> deeply-felt recommendations -- games that I played intensively,
> value, and feel my reader should play "before you die."
>
> Henry
>
>
> On 8/9/2010 11:14 AM, Rowan Kaiser wrote:
>> It's an editor with several contributors. I know at least one of
>> them. It does make me wonder how many games I've played, and how
>> many of them I could recommend.
>>
>> Rowan
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Henry Lowood
>> <lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Devin,
>>
>> I agree -- it's difficult to see how anyone could play
>> through that many games.
>>
>> Henry
>>
>>
>> On 8/9/2010 10:41 AM, Devin Monnens wrote:
>>> I haven't played 1000 games. I don't think there's too many
>>> people who have. It might be more useful to have a 100 list
>>> say, as that's much easier to go through - though obviously
>>> not as extensive.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Henry Lowood
>>> <lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That is a long bucket list! I guess the author is
>>> claiming to have played all of them, though.
>>>
>>> Henry
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2010 11:49 AM, Jan Baart wrote:
>>>> There's also this upcoming effort:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/1001-Video-Games-Must-Before/dp/0789320908
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>>> Rowan,
>>>>>
>>>>> You probably know this, but a mini-version of such a
>>>>> book exists, published (which is interesting in
>>>>> itself) by the BFI:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/100-Videogames-BFI-Screen-Guides/dp/1844571629
>>>>>
>>>>> And of course, we know the authors ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Henry
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/3/2010 5:58 PM, Rowan Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>> The main way that I think canons or Halls of Fame or
>>>>>> lists of best ever work is if there's some kind of
>>>>>> lens. Simple subjectivity is one way to go about it,
>>>>>> but there are other ways. The initial list you linked
>>>>>> to, Andrew, had a fairly interesting one in that it
>>>>>> seemed to be aimed at aspiring designers. This allows
>>>>>> bad games as well as good on the list,
>>>>>> entertainingly. It had some organizational and
>>>>>> editorial problems, but I think that's a fascinating
>>>>>> concept, especially as it brings in non-video games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One idea that I've had for a long time is an
>>>>>> encyclopedia of video games. But not like a
>>>>>> Britannica or World Book where it's ostensibly a
>>>>>> collection of facts presented in a neutral voice, but
>>>>>> like some of the film encyclopedias which present a
>>>>>> series of essays on each of their subjects. This
>>>>>> allows for more interesting opinions, more diverse
>>>>>> forms of writing or argument, and, at least
>>>>>> conceptually, a sort of user-generated canon. Maybe I
>>>>>> don't care about, say, The Legend of Dragoon, but one
>>>>>> of its fans can write convincingly about why it's
>>>>>> interesting or important. Likewise, a game like
>>>>>> Starcraft is important in completely different ways
>>>>>> to completely different people. One essay could talk
>>>>>> about its role in competitive gaming, while another
>>>>>> focuses on its interesting use of narrative for a
>>>>>> strategy game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rowan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Andrew Armstrong
>>>>>> <andrew at aarmstrong.org
>>>>>> <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replying to everyone here at once; I agree with
>>>>>> everyone! Firstly; Canon should be expansive -
>>>>>> why not if we can do so? :D However, the degree
>>>>>> which it is classified Canon is just so that it
>>>>>> isn't /everything/, and probably it'd take both
>>>>>> influential (ala Bill and Matts work, although
>>>>>> their website goes a lot deeper!) and the
>>>>>> pioneers and tech instigators. Like other
>>>>>> technology mediums, there is a lot of good first
>>>>>> attempts, with the polishers really shining it
>>>>>> later for real use, but both are important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Secondly; that list was just an example which
>>>>>> sprung this idea again - that there are tons of
>>>>>> appendixes and short lists of games without the
>>>>>> kind of historical context most people here
>>>>>> recognise, thus have massive flaws. Daikatana?
>>>>>> Trespasser? Both perhaps good examples of some
>>>>>> really poor design, even if it tries to pioneer
>>>>>> some aspect or other, but otherwise only
>>>>>> interesting at all in how bad they are. Even Lets
>>>>>> Play's of these games are notorious! Not quite
>>>>>> canon material perhaps, but it does
>>>>>> depend...they'd have their place but it'd be low
>>>>>> down the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The IGN list is actually surprisingly interesting
>>>>>> for noting the pioneers and influencers, even if
>>>>>> it is very boring, and also oddly not really
>>>>>> complete or in depth (it again is like a book
>>>>>> appendix, and has similar issues with the choices
>>>>>> in games perhaps, but so does anything!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thirdly; That is great news Henry that you've
>>>>>> still got it on your mind. I'm certainly up for
>>>>>> helping whatever effort. It would be the case
>>>>>> that a great step would be to get the LoC to
>>>>>> consider games properly. I could check out the UK
>>>>>> scene on it too, and I am sure some other
>>>>>> European institutions might be interested since
>>>>>> they preserve films but not games as such (we can
>>>>>> assume the actual game museums/archives will
>>>>>> protect them but they of course need to be
>>>>>> notified of these important games too :) so a
>>>>>> list is always good). Even just getting them on
>>>>>> board to protect the actual media if not much
>>>>>> ephemera would work wonders for posterity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any case, glad there is some interest, however
>>>>>> minor! I think the easiest part for many people
>>>>>> is arguing why a game is really, really important
>>>>>> in a good way - which is the major first step. I
>>>>>> said perhaps start small, and this is mainly
>>>>>> because if anything, the IGN list shows that even
>>>>>> a small few-paragraph description of "why" is a
>>>>>> good starting point for further investigation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>>>> <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Henry Lowood
>>>>> Curator for History of Science& Technology Collections;
>>>>> Film& Media Collections
>>>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>>>>> Stanford University Libraries, Stanford CA 94305-6004
>>>>> 650-723-4602;lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Henry Lowood
>>> Curator, History of Science& Technology Collections;
>>> Film& Media Collections
>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>>> 650-723-4602;lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>
>>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
>>> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Devin Monnens
>>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>>
>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>> --
>> Henry Lowood
>> Curator, History of Science& Technology Collections;
>> Film& Media Collections
>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>> 650-723-4602;lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>
>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
> --
> Henry Lowood
> Curator, History of Science& Technology Collections;
> Film& Media Collections
> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
> 650-723-4602;lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>
> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/attachments/20100810/1bbf8992/attachment.htm>
More information about the game_preservation
mailing list