[game_preservation] Game Database question

[Andrew Armstrong]

I'd certainly after looking at some book bibliographic stuff, and other 
bits and pieces, echo Henry that there are some standards in some very 
similar release areas - so, we're not comparing to films or TV shows 
here, but probably more books - which go through revisions (especially 
anything non-fiction), editions, localisations, re-releases, reprints, 
pirated copies, and share many common attributes. The only one thing I 
couldn't think matches is the system a book runs on - unless you go into 
hardback, paperback, paper, journal, magazine, digital...then it does 
perhaps become similar again.

Fascinating to read your thoughts, pretty much nothing else to add 
since, well, no one has said anything that seems bizarre. I think it's 
not something easy to pin down as you say, especially if in addition to 
the original "published" games there might also be much more hazy open 
source variants for instance - things not done by a publisher, like the 
many Doom ports (some, funnily enough, reused for other systems like the 
iPhone and so forth!). You get into real mazes of what can be broken 
down then!

I'm a big fan of grouping things myself. I think stuff belongs in 
multiple bags rather then just separated and distinct - Mobygames I 
think gets nearer what I like reading (the "Overview" of a game for 
multiple platforms), since there are specific sub-entries, and they do 
need to be there to note distinct differences, but you tend to see it is 
in fact, when it comes down to it, a broadly similar experience 
therefore worth noting as such. Hard to find cases where it is vastly 
different except the noted handheld versions which are really "in name 
only".

After all, it's not like categories are to divide things up because they 
are different, it is to group things that are the same. Sounds odd, 
reading that sentence back, but makes sense in my head, heh.

Andrew

On 15/03/2010 09:27, Jan Baart wrote:

> As your two examples show I don't think a general rule to draw the 

> line between version and different game can be found. In most cases it 

> is obvious but in others it isn't and has to be decided on a case by 

> case basis. And then there's the somewhat artificial concept of 

> platforms too. Let's continue with one of the examples brought up 

> earlier. Fate of Atlantis. It has seen releases on DOS, Amiga, Mac, 

> Wii and probably Windows and if you want ScummVM. All of these have 

> their differences, mainly in terms of control. But, in a discussion 

> about the game it wouldn't matter at all which port you played. It 

> would make a difference though whether you played the talkie version 

> or not. At the same time, playing a cd compilation re-release of lets 

> say Batman: The Caped Crusader for DOS is not different to playing its 

> original floppy version at all but playing the CPC version instead 

> certainly is.

>

> I think mobygames does a good job of having a list of games and 

> listing the variants within that entry. Something like this can never 

> be perfect but I think they found a good solution.

>

> About your comment on piracy. Are you referring to things like chinese 

> spritehacked Super Nintendo games etc? If so I'd certainly agree that 

> their dismissal is not very helpful.

>

> On 15.03.2010 00:58, Devin Monnens wrote:

>> Let me begin by emphasizing something that I think should have been 

>> emphasized at the roundtable more: we need to work on standards that 

>> all libraries and archives can agree on.

>>

>> For cataloging, I would go back to 'what is the minimum amount of 

>> data required to indicate how the game is identified'? Beyond this, 

>> we would want to know 'what does it take to run this game as intended?'

>>

>> Jim makes a couple good points here as well.

>>

>> First, how different do two copies of a game have to be for them to 

>> be considered different games? Golden Axe on HG101 is a good example 

>> of a comparison. I don't know where I'd even begin here.

>>

>> http://hg101.kontek.net/goldenaxe/goldenaxe.htm

>>

>> An easier example. In the NES and Famicom versions of Castlevania 3, 

>> you have graphical changes like the vampire frogs (!) replaced with 

>> hunchbacks. The game functions identically despite this graphical 

>> change, but it could be argued there is a different interpretation if 

>> there are hunchbacks. However, the handshake switch does change some 

>> meaning in the game (Trevor is righty or lefty/he is shaking Sypha's 

>> hand or holding it delicately). On a more dramatic level, the music 

>> is superior in the Famicom version, so this is a something notable 

>> that could affect a player's perception (better music makes players 

>> think the game is better). However, there is also a rule change where 

>> the damage taken is different - in the US version, damage is based on 

>> game level while in the Famicom, it is based on what kind of enemy 

>> hits you (which makes later stages easier). I'm not sure I would 

>> consider these big enough differences though to warrant calling it a 

>> different game, more like different version numbers. With the Golden 

>> Axe examples, I think there's greater leeway in calling a port a 

>> different game. There simply isn't an analogue to this in film or 

>> novels because the content doesn't really change if it's on vhs or 

>> dvd or in times new roman versus arial.

>>

>> http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Games/cv3foreign.html

>>

>> The second I think is this dismissal of piracy categories, and here I 

>> think there needs some clarification. Game lists such as 'Goodtools' 

>> can be very useful in documenting changes between two games. However, 

>> these are not currently tied to metadata so we don't know exactly 

>> what changes were made or where each version came from (usually). I 

>> wouldn't completely dismiss this resource as a byte-to-byte 

>> comparison of the games can indicate if there is a difference in two 

>> games for the same platform.

>>

>>

>> -- 

>> Devin Monnens

>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>

>>

>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>>

>>

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