[game_preservation] Internet Archive Starts Archiving Commercial PC Games?

[Martin Goldberg]

For the companies who are no longer around or where the assets are not
easily trackable, I can see that whole heartedly. For the ones that are
still here, I can't. And I certainly agree with preserving the culture and
gameplay understanding, but what does the digital distribution of the ROM
have to do with that? I would argue that much of the culture and gameplay
understanding of early generations of gaming are already moving towards
loss (the current generations have little understanding of the impact of
major early companies for instance), and those efforts are better served
with preservation of books, films, news coverage, etc. of the period along
with oral/video histories of those involved. Much like the CHM does.


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote:


> No one can see, hear, or use what's been preserved...until 75 years pass

> and the copyright expires AND the archive decides to make it public.

>

> OR the copyright holder decides to make it public before the copyright

> expiration date.

>

> Pretty sure that's how it works.

>

> However, because nobody will live 75 years to be able to enjoy the games

> who does so now, much of the culture, gameplay, and understanding of those

> games will be lost (hence a new focus on recording gameplay and play

> experiences).

>

> Likewise, the copyright holder might not care about the audience that

> wants to play these games and not make them available legally (for purchase

> or otherwise).

>

> Or, in the case of digital media, the source media might decay and become

> unreadable before the copyright expires (hence a need to preserve it before

> that happens, and some organizations have decided it is better to preserve

> first and ask questions later - which is probably the correct thing to do

> in some cases, given the life expectancy of the media and the speed of the

> legal system).

>

> -Devin

>

>

> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com>wrote:

>

>> Preservation in no way implies how people see and hear what's being

>> preserved, and making it digitally available for download and/or live play

>> on a website far surpasses those needs. Where on earth did you get the idea

>> that no one would see the game if it wasn't thrown up on a website and

>> freely distributed? The rights of digital distribution (which is what this

>> entails) is entirely up to the copyright holder. Atari, Nintendo, Sega,

>> Activision, etc. for instance still licenses these games out and many

>> already have current initiatives regarding the purchasing of digitally

>> distributed games that this directly conflicts with.

>>

>>

>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Alex Handy <alex at themade.org> wrote:

>>

>>> What's the point of preservation if no one can see, hear, or use what's

>>> been preserved?

>>> On Dec 16, 2013 12:00 PM, "Martin Goldberg" <wgungfu at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Certainly understandable, though them not getting back to you should be

>>>> a clear indication of rights not granted. Either way, I would think there's

>>>> a difference between preservation and offering them up on a website for

>>>> download and play though.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Alex Handy <alex at themade.org> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Certainly, some are very easy to source. I've tried to get rights like

>>>>> this for preservation purposes before, and it's a very, very difficult row

>>>>> to hoe. Even knowing who owns the games, they won't return your calls...

>>>>>

>>>>> There is stuff out there that's vanishing, and i love Jason's save it

>>>>> all attitude.

>>>>> On Dec 16, 2013 11:18 AM, "Martin Goldberg" <wgungfu at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> That's certainly not the case with any of the Atari games and some of

>>>>>> the other related companies. They're very easy to source.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Alex Handy <alex at themade.org> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Problem is most of the stuff he's preserving is damn near impossible

>>>>>>> to source ip rights on. 80's game companies have all been sold off a dozen

>>>>>>> times, and the companies that still own those rights probably don't even

>>>>>>> know they own them..

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Ip is a mess right now. I think Jason is doing the right thing.

>>>>>>> Waiting for companies to give him permission would basically doom the

>>>>>>> project to failure.

>>>>>>> On Dec 16, 2013 9:30 AM, "Andrew Perti" <andrew.perti at thesimm.org>

>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I recently had a lengthy discussion with Jason about this. He's

>>>>>>>> using what he calls the 'back door' method, rather than the legal and

>>>>>>>> conventional 'front door.' A 'let's see what happens' approach.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Preservation, to me, does not necessarily include making something

>>>>>>>> publicly available. This is especially true when you don't hold an original

>>>>>>>> to reference from. I'd call it piracy with rose tinted sunglasses; at the

>>>>>>>> core, mass proliferation of copywritten works (IP) for free. The intent was

>>>>>>>> the same and Underground-Gamer.com was taken down this past year

>>>>>>>> for gross proliferation.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> We'll see what spaghetti sticks to the ceiling and which falls.

>>>>>>>> Though the JSMESS stack is impressive, I'm of the opinion that public

>>>>>>>> domain ROMs, shareware, and other freeware may have been a better route to

>>>>>>>> get the conversation going from the start.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> There isn't for the Atari related games, so your first assessment

>>>>>>>>> is most likely right.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Benj Edwards <

>>>>>>>>> editor at vintagecomputing.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> If I had to guess, I think Jason is uploading those commercial

>>>>>>>>>> game CDs to force the issue (i.e. preserve them at all costs, regardless of

>>>>>>>>>> legality), probably with the consideration that legal action against the

>>>>>>>>>> Archive for those old games is unlikely.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Or maybe IA does have some agreement cooked up with those games'

>>>>>>>>>> publishers.  But I seriously, seriously doubt it.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Benj

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> On 12/15/2013 3:36 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder who that is ;)

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> On 15/12/2013 19:14, Jim Leonard wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/8/2013 1:03 AM, Mike Melanson wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of these seem to have a release date of today (December

>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7). So maybe

>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're planning a big announcement.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> A sampling of metadata for that collection shows "<uploader>

>>>>>>>>>>>> jscott at archive.org</uploader>", so I would imagine you can

>>>>>>>>>>>> contact that address for more details.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

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>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>> Freelance Writer / Editor in Chief VC&G

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.benjedwards.com

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagecomputing.com

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>>>>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>> Marty

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>>>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list

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>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>> Marty

>>>>>>

>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Marty

>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> game_preservation mailing list

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>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>

>>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> Marty

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_preservation mailing list

>> game_preservation at igda.org

>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>

>>

>

>

> --

> Devin Monnens

> www.deserthat.com

>

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

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>

>



-- 
Marty
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