Arrow and added baggage cars

Mon Jan 6 14:00:32 EST 2025

Mike:
I think Gordon was refering to the streamlined Pm coaches 1723-1734 built by Pullman in 1941. The 10 Powhatan Arrow coaches were P3, built in 1949.
Both classes of these cars were very much alike except the Pm trucks had 9 ft wheelbase and the P3 8-1/2 ft. Dont' forget P1 and P2 coaches were part of the 1949 Powhatan Arrow order, two cars of each.

--Rick Morrison
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Monday, January 06, 2025 12:35 PM
  Subject: Re: Arrow and added baggage cars

  Gordon,
  I have heard that heavyweights rode better, well basically, because they were heavier. Can anyone else confirm this or add to it?
  I suspect this is similar to how larger cars ride better than compact cars.

  Mike Rector 

  On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 11:55 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

    Jim:

    I'll be glad to discuss these places with you.

    gordonshamilton at cox.net

    On 1/5/2025 4:26 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

      Gordon, 
      Please send me your Email address.  I would like to talk about Bluefield, Princeton and Berea.
      Jim Cochran:  jimdcochran at gmail.com

      On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 4:17 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhsorg> wrote:

        This is not strictly on the below subject, but I am reminded of one experience that I had during four years of trips between Bluefield, WV, (near my home close to Princeton, WV) and Berea College on the L&N in Kentucky.  Going back and forth I tried some off-the-path train trips (ie.. N&W to St. Paul,VA; CRR to Elkhorn City, KY; C&O to Ashland, KY and on to Winchester, KY; and L&N to Berea).  But my most-common rides were on the coaches of the N&W's Pocahontas and Powhatan Arrow between Bluefield and Cincinnati (L&N between Cincinnati and Berea).  The Arrow still had the P3coaches that were built for that train.  After several trips on the coaches of both of these N&W trains, I noticed that the older coaches on the Pocahontas rode smoother than the new P3 coaches on the Powhatan Arrow.  Anyone else notice a similar difference in the ride qualities of the two different groups of coaches?

        Gordon Hamilton

        On 1/4/2025 10:06 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

          Thank you Ken.  Your response answered several of the questions bouncing around in my head.  Walter Davis

          On 1/4/2025 9:43 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Walter

The Arrow as originally planned in 1945-46 was a seven car train. That was why the order with Pullman-Standard included, two P-1 locker or crew cars, two P2 partitioned coaches, 10, P3 58-seat coaches, four D-1 diners (two for the Pocahontas) and two P-4 observation lounge cars.

The seven-car trains were to be set up as follows:

One P1 Coach or Locker Car with space for dining car crew and coach seats
One P2 Coach, partitioned coach for race separation to meet Virginia law
Three P3 Coaches
One D1 diner
One P4 Observation Lounge

Unfortunately, the railroad fairly quickly learned, with the Arrow having run since April 1946, that three coaches were frequently too much, so it was cut back to one or two P3 coaches, depending on load and days of the week.

Traffic never picked up except for holiday travel and other rare occasions.
By the early 1950s, the P1s were converted to full coaches with a smoking section.

The train did not handle checked baggage, but about early 1957, a combine was added to the consist, I assume to handle some checked baggage.

Along about the same time, it was not unusual to see a mail-storage car in the consist, that had been late arriving for another train.

The N&W began a big effort to eliminate as much passenger service as possible. With attempted adjustments of the schedule with the timetable change at the end of April 1957 the RPO was placed in the Arrow west of Bluefield. I believe it might have been with schedule changes on the Cavalier, I’ve got a whole file on it, just not in hand at the moment.

By early 1959, the round-end observation-lounge cars were parked and by May sold off.

A few years later, the Arrow was then combined with the Cavalier, further slowing the schedule, and it was finally allowed to die in May 1969 as part of the upgrade of the Pocahontas.

Best
Ken Miller

On Jan 4, 2025, at 7:08 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Does anyone know when the Arrow started adding baggage and/or post office cars to the consists of the original 5 car trains?  Walter Davis in Youngsville, NC
-- 
Walter Davis

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          Walter Davis

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